00:00 Intro
01:21 Discussion on the Kansas City Chiefs Parade Shooting
04:06 What They’ve Been Watching
11:56 News: Fantastic Four Cast Announcement
24:10 News: Deadpool and Planet of the Apes Trailers
31:13 News: Couple Pleads guilty in aftermath of Gender Reveal Gone Wrong
35:34 News: Carl Weathers Passing
42:26 Discussion of AI in Art
01:29:19 The Portable Hole Podcast Outro.mp4
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Emaul us at [email protected]
Ryan (00:29)
the portable hole podcast. I’m Ryan George and I’m here with my good friends, Justin and cynic. How are you guys doing?
[email protected] (00:35)
Pretty good. Can’t complain.
Ryan (00:37)
Yep. Any, anything new in the world of Justin?
[email protected] (00:42)
Not too much. I’ve been sort of working on some music stuff, which means, but what I mean by that is, again, I’m always working on something, but I have to finish a few things. So that means I’m basically, my head is in it for hours at a time, days. Like I don’t wake up and I don’t know anything else exists. Sometimes that just happens.
Ryan (00:45)
Yep.
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. How about you Sinek? What’s up with you?
cinik (01:06)
Well, I’ll tell you, Ryan, I’m getting older by the day. Besides that, not a lot. I mean, first and foremost, and unrelated to me, what took place during the Kansas City Chiefs parade was just disgusting. And it bothers me even more that it was mostly children that were involved or injured and shot. And I just don’t know at what point we pump the brakes on this stuff and start taking human life.
Ryan (01:09)
Thanks for watching!
[email protected] (01:11)
Feel that.
Oh.
Ryan (01:27)
Yeah.
cinik (01:35)
and making it a priority.
Ryan (01:37)
Yeah, it does not seem like there’s a significant chunk of this country that does not seem to care. Yeah, exactly. But now, has anything I’ve been like so focused on work and getting ready for, I’ve got a lot of work stuff going on and getting ready to go away next week. But like, has anything come out about who it was, why it happened or anything?
cinik (01:44)
So, thoughts and prayers.
Well, when it originally happened, it was supposedly three suspects in custody, one of which was tackled by the crowd itself, which I couldn’t have been more proud of those people because at the end of the day, us all being, you know, New Yorker, New York adjacent, you’re going to have to take things into your own hands when this stuff happens because the cops aren’t going to save you. It’s just if you want to stop loss of life, people are going to have to stop running and start fighting back.
Ryan (02:06)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (02:28)
And so they did, they were able to apprehend one, not a hundred percent positive if that was the person, but what it boiled down to, I guess, was two individuals beefing and they drew guns and started popping caps.
Ryan (02:32)
Yeah.
It’s like, it makes me not want to be in any kind of crowded space ever. Just because it’s so, I don’t, yeah, it’s, but we’re all so desensitized to it at this point that like it happened, like I read the news and was like, yeah, I mean, kind of makes sense, right? It’s gonna, you know, it just is an everyday occurrence, unfortunately.
[email protected] (02:46)
Yeah.
Ryan (03:05)
So, well, I guess the good thing is we got that out of the way, because I wasn’t going to, it was part of, it was a news item. So now we don’t have to talk about that. So thank you. We did. Yeah.
[email protected] (03:05)
Yeah, we did.
cinik (03:10)
You’re welcome. Well, it’s been on my mind and it definitely affected me as I sat there eating dinner last night and kind of watching everything unfold. It’s, you know, you’re right. There’s not a time or place where this isn’t possible. People always need to be aware and, you know, you got to do what you got to do when it happens.
Ryan (03:18)
Yeah.
But it’s scary because I feel like, you know, now I’m in a position where I’m somebody who does not, I mean, you know, if and when you have, it is, it is allowed in New York, I might just have to, because I feel like if you can, you just need to have one, you know, and there’s a, there’s a court going, a Supreme court case that kind of, you know, putting into question kind of the gun laws here and, and yeah, it’s like, Hey, if everyone’s getting them, you know, you almost have to because everyone else is not because I necessarily want to, but it just is it’s just a crappy situation. But.
on to happier things, maybe let’s let’s talk about what you guys are watching if you have been and when we talk about what you’re watching, it could be it could be you know, listening to music, anything that’s new. So Justin, once you tell me anything this week that that has caught your eye or ear that you that you’d like to shout out.
[email protected] (04:01)
Hahaha
Yes, I haven’t been watching too much this week besides Nick’s games and they’re decimated with injuries right now, but they’re pretty good. So when they get healthy.
Ryan (04:24)
Yeah. It’s interesting that like they may actually, if they’re healthy, they may be a good team. It’s just a question of are they going to be healthy? But yeah.
[email protected] (04:32)
Yeah, no, they’ve had a, they have their first real star in decades. So yeah, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s fun to watch. I found one of my new favorite bands. They’re, they’ve been out for a couple of years. They’re called the Viagra Boys. I love their sardonic, weird songs.
Ryan (04:51)
You
Viagra boy. Have you heard of the Viagra boy cynic? Okay. All right. I gotta are they what kind of music is it?
cinik (04:56)
I have not.
[email protected] (04:58)
Yeah, they’re great. You would like them.
It’s sort of like strange indie music, rock, pop, hip hop type stuff, like whatever you call it. Like it’s got a, it’s interesting. It’s good stuff. I like it. It’s very sarcastic. It’s very sardonic. Yeah, it’s very smart.
Ryan (05:22)
I would hope so if your name is the Viagra Boys.
Yeah, okay. All right. I’ll be.
cinik (05:29)
If you don’t name that group out of irony, then you’ve got some real problems.
Ryan (05:32)
Yeah, seriously. And how about you, Seneca? Are you watching anything or see anything interesting?
cinik (05:37)
Well, I took the week to catch up on Reacher, so I’m now caught up with you guys. And despite some of the flaws in story and acting, it was a lot of fun. And I love the over -the -top violence of it. And it wrapped up nicely. And some good co -stars, they had hurt from the wire on there. So I really love that. Anytime you can see a wire alum in any show, it excites me. And I’ve actually met him, and he’s a pretty decent dude. He’s fun to talk to.
Ryan (05:41)
Okay?
Okay, yeah. Yeah.
[email protected] (05:51)
Yeah.
Ryan (06:01)
Yeah. Oh cool. Yeah.
cinik (06:05)
unlike Seth Gilliam who plays Carver who totally sucks. But yeah, it was a fun season and I’m hoping that they’ll do more with the characters and maybe even this larger group that they’ve introduced. And on top of that, I’ve been watching a lot of season 14 of Gold Rush. That show does not get old to me and it’s just fun to watch the story of Parker Schnabel who started off as a 17 year old kid.
Ryan (06:08)
Really?
Okay, what’s?
cinik (06:34)
and now is 27, starting from like a novice working at his grandfather’s side to becoming one of the top gold producers in Alaska. So that’s kind of awesome. The show’s been a lot of fun to follow over the years.
Ryan (06:43)
Okay. Okay.
14 seasons and it’s still still keeping you interested.
cinik (06:51)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s mindless fun. And it’s, listen, I feel like I could go run a gold mine at this point. I’m so experienced by watching this show. Like if some one of the heavy pieces of machinery breakdown, I’m right there and I understand what I got to do.
Ryan (07:07)
Yeah. Nice. So I’ve been, um, I’ve got two things that I’ve watched this week, uh, that were, so I started watching, um, love on the spectrum, which is on, um, Netflix, which basically it follows, um, several people with varying, you know, uh, I guess very varying levels on the spectrum, on the autism spectrum, um, trying to find love. Uh, and you know, it does it, it’s a really well done show. You know, I have to say, I think, you know, there’s a, there’s a world where a show like that is kind of.
[email protected] (07:16)
Oh yeah.
Ryan (07:37)
Um, and you know, it kind of can be done really poorly. Yeah, exactly. That was a word, um, that my, my, my, my seemingly diminished like cognitive skills. I was, but it could be very exploitative. Um, and be just done in a way that was kind of tasteless. And this is really well done. You know, it’s like, it’s not making fun of them. Um, you know, they’re not like the butt of a joke. Uh, and it’s really fun because you do watch, you know, sometimes they find love. Sometimes they don’t.
[email protected] (07:39)
Exploitative, yeah.
Hahaha
Ryan (08:04)
You get to see the variety of just how different people are. There’s just so many, it’s something that kind of presents itself in so many different ways. And you have these people loving families that are really just trying to find the right person. And again, like in the cases where they do, it’s really cool. Even when they don’t, seeing them kind of deal with it. And there’s some interesting situations where it’s like, the person actually turns down somebody that you’re like, hey, why are you turning that person down? So there’s some really interesting, it does a really good job of following these people and.
making you care about them. And again, when things work, it’s really done really, really sweet. So definitely a show worth watching. My wife is a teacher and that’s kind of the population she works with. So she wanted something she wanted to watch and definitely illuminating. So highly recommended show to watch. And the second thing I watched some movie. So speaking of wire alums, probably the most famous wire alum,
Idris Elba. So this movie came out, I think it was last year called 3000 years of longing. It’s it is a Oh, God, I gotta how am I forgetting her name? Sorry, I can’t. Yeah, exactly. It’s like it’s right there. No, I should know like you’re gonna you’re you’re gonna tell me I’m crazy that I did not I’m not remembering her name again, diminished cognitive.
cinik (09:19)
always have that IMDb pulled up, then you look like a genius.
Ryan (09:34)
years of…
Yeah, 3000, oh, Tilda Swinton. So yeah, so it stars Idris Elba and Tilda Swinton. And so basically, he’s a djinn. She finds like a lamp and it turns out he’s a djinn and he, you know, she has three wishes. And it is really artfully done because a lot of the movie is just them in a hotel room talking. But then as they’re talking, he’s going about his own history, which is the 3000 years and.
And it’s just like this sad, almost tragedy that he’s been through that then kind of turns into this love story and just goes places that you don’t expect. So I really liked it. I think when it came out, the reviews were mixed. I think some, you know, some were very good. Some were kind of, you know, that it misses the mark. Like I think, you know, as you guys know, I like things that take big swings. And this definitely is a movie that really takes big, big swings visually, thematically, like the story. But I thought it worked.
Like I was, I was engaged the entire time. Again, it’s a beautiful movie. You’ve got two like powerhouse actors acting, you know, against each other. And again, it just tells us really, you know, both a beautiful love story, but also kind of a tragedy at the same time. Um, so I like highly recommend that if you haven’t seen it yet, it’s very, very good. Something that kind of under, under the radar, like not, you know, I didn’t hear much about it. Didn’t get much press. Um, but definitely worth, worth your while if you’re, you know, if you’re a fan of either.
Again, highly recommend that. Have either of guys seen it?
cinik (11:11)
Yeah, I haven’t, but I absolutely loved her in Burn After Reading. Like she was the worst person ever. And yeah, she’s a great actress. I mean, that cast is full of great actors and actresses, but she kind of stood out as just a complete ice queen and just a terrible person.
Ryan (11:16)
Yeah. Yeah.
No she’s great I mean…
Yeah.
Yeah, no, she’s great. She’s one of the, you know, the kind of our kind of generations kind of finest, you know, actors and somebody who just, yeah, she can do, you know, she can do anything. So yeah, highly, highly recommended if you have a chance to watch it. So we’ll get into news. So a few, a few news stories. So the first one, I guess the biggest news of the week from a pop culture standpoint is that after what seems like years, they finally announced a new fantastic four cast.
So have you been following this in it? Yeah, so what’s interesting for me is like, it’s kind of funny how, because the same thing happened with Spider -Man’s, right? So we had the Tobey Maguire Spider -Man, which people loved, and then we had the Andrew Garfield Spider -Man, which people, and then when the Marvel version, you know, the Marvel Marvel version and not the Sony version of Spider -Man, you know, reappeared, it was like,
cinik (11:59)
have.
Ryan (12:22)
people were throwing babies in the air. Like it was the, you know, like we’d never seen Spider -Man, but like we had just gotten Spider -Man, you know, a couple of years ago. So it was kind of strange that the reaction, but then we kind of had the same reaction with this. We’re like, we had the, you know, Fantastic Four movie, you know, I don’t know, more than a decade ago. And then there was a recent reboot of Fantastic Four that was bombed and not good. And then we have the new cast announced. And again, people are like throwing babies in the air, but it’s kind of interesting. So the cast,
[email protected] (12:24)
haha
Ryan (12:51)
for this version features. So Pedro Pascal is Mr. Fantastic. And I want to get you guys thoughts on him as being cast as Mr. Fantastic. Vanessa Kirby, who I know she’s been in a lot of stuff, but I’ve not, I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anything she’s been in is Sue Storm. Joseph Quinn, who’s Eddie Munson in Stranger Things is going to be Johnny Storm. And then Ebon Moss Bacra.
I’m pronouncing that right from the bear and and or is the thing. So actually, I think it’s pretty cool. I like the cast. I think, you know, Pedro Pascal kind of can do anything and is somebody who I think is becoming that guy that like, he gets fan casted and everything. But just quick thoughts on the cast if anything at all.
[email protected] (13:26)
Yeah.
You know, it’s funny, I’m looking at it now. Yeah, it’s sort of one of those for me that is hard to keep track, because I’m not so big on Marvel movies and superhero movies. So it’s like, yeah, I heard about it and it was like, okay, the cast seems good to me. And yeah, I was sort of like…
It’s kind of like thinking what you thought, all this hoopla, okay, let’s hope it’s good. It could just be, have some good actors and not be anything. Although they probably will be, right? So this is a Marvel production.
Ryan (14:16)
Yeah.
Yeah, so basically, you know, what’s been going on. So, and this is the thing, and it’s a weird time too. Yeah, so that’s why like the Spider -Man movies with Tom Holland were very good. And I think there’s the expectation that Marvel with that, you know, Fantastic Four and Marvel had just the same thing with the X -Men that in Marvel’s hands, they can do something better. The only problem is that Marvel themselves have not been putting out the best movies lately. So yeah, Cynic, what are your thoughts? Are you kind of, were you excited about the cast or are you just kind of like, ah, whatever, I’ll see, you know.
[email protected] (14:24)
And they generally do a better job than the strain.
Yeah.
Ryan (14:50)
I’ll believe it when I see it as far as it being any good.
cinik (14:52)
Well, like we discussed, I think it was last week. I’m not huge on the whole fantasy casting thing because I’m not a casting director. I’m just a guy with a microphone. I’m just a guy with a microphone. So my thing is, is that I thought that they were going to go with a younger team. And that was the reason we weren’t using John Krasinski, who I think is perfect for the role of Reed Richards. And I love Pedro. Or as my coworkers say, I fuck with Pedro. Like Pedro’s all right.
Ryan (15:00)
Oh, you’re gonna hate my next question.
[email protected] (15:02)
Yeah.
Ryan (15:11)
Mm. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (15:20)
Mm -hmm.
cinik (15:22)
Great in everything that he’s done, but I think a little bit too recognizable of a face, a little too busy. And I think one of Marvel’s biggest mistakes is casting these working actors that have a hundred irons in the fire, where it’s gonna be a problem for him to come back. Or it’s going to affect some of the other shows that we love, like The Last of Us is Mandalorian. What are we doing?
Ryan (15:45)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he’s like the franchise king now. Yeah. Yeah.
cinik (15:49)
Like you couldn’t find a more busy fucking guy to put in this role. Like I love Pedro, but I think that’s a mistake and I think it’s going to hurt the franchise. And this franchise desperately needs a reboot.
Ryan (15:52)
Yeah.
Now as a fellow fan of the bear, how’d you like the casting of the thing? Of Ben Grimm?
cinik (16:04)
I think it works. Yeah, I think that works on a lot of different levels. Like he’s kind of a brooding and sourpuss guy. Like that’s another actor that I think you could slot him in in any role. And
he’s believable. And I would, we’re actually, I meant to mention earlier that we were also kind of scampering our way through the first season of The Punisher. And I think we’re just about done with that. And he’s amazing in that as well. Like the guy can do no wrong in my eyes.
Ryan (16:18)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, he’s in Andor too. He does a great job there. So yeah, so now my question for fan casting. So the big, so I think Giancarlo Esposito is kind of been, he’s put it out there that he’ll play, he’d like to play Dr. Doom. I think, I think I read that. I could be wrong. I hope I’m not misspeaking, but any thoughts on who you’d like to see play Dr. Doom or do you not want to fan cast?
cinik (16:59)
Wow, Dr. Doom, I wouldn’t mind seeing Jon Hamm in the role.
Ryan (17:08)
That could work. Any, anyone on your end, Justin?
[email protected] (17:11)
Nah, I’m not a casting director.
Ryan (17:13)
Yeah. All right.
cinik (17:14)
Especially after Fargo. Seeing him in Fargo makes me believe that he could pull off the bad guy and I think he could pull off Dr. Doom.
Ryan (17:21)
Yeah, the only thing with Jean -Carlo Esposito is kind of the same issue is like, he’s the bad guy in everything. He’s the bad guy in the Mandalorian. He’s the bad guy in the boys. He was the bad guy in Breaking Bad. He’s like, you know, the go -to bad guy. So I can see a world where like maybe we get somebody else to play that, but that’ll be interesting to see who they come up with because I think that Marvel might pivot. So whoever they pick is not just going to be the Dr. Noom villain, but Marvel ends up pivoting to like, this is our big bad for the next phase of…
cinik (17:49)
I kind of thought he was pining for the Professor X role, Esposito. Yeah, yeah, I could see him in that role. Absolutely see him in that role.
Ryan (17:52)
Yeah, I think I heard about that too, right? Yeah. Which I think I should be better.
Yeah, no, I think that absolutely, I think that would be a better role for him and he’d be good for him to play like a good guy, you know, for once in one of these major franchises. But yeah, but we’ll see. You know, I think, you know, with Marvel, I think, you know, there is that, as we’ve talked about, like we’re slowly, you know, we’ve got this Marvel fatigue that’s been going on for the last couple of years. We’re no longer in a world where everything that they put out is a surefire hit. And that, you know, that is an issue. I mean, speaking of, I forget if I…
mentioned it last week, but I watched the Marvels. And I didn’t go to like, so first of all, I’m somebody who’s been to the theaters, theaters to see every Marvel movie. And the Marvels might have been one of the first Marvel movies that I didn’t go to the theater to see. And I wasn’t pining to see it. It was just like we were sitting, watching TV. And I was like, oh, the Marvels is on now let’s watch it. And it was not good. Like I, you know, I, and I’m all for it. Like I really liked Miss Marvel, the Disney plus show, I thought it was good. I liked Captain Marvel. I thought it was
perfectly fine. So I was actually excited about this. I thought it could be good, but it was bad. I mean, they were there and cringy. So it’s just like, yeah, Marvel has to get their act together. So that you’re like, we’re losing, they’re losing that kind of cache that they had before the, the, the trust in the fans, I guess, that everything they put out is going to be great. And now you have people that are being more kind of judicious with with their choices and what to watch. So we’ll see.
cinik (19:19)
But you say you’re excited, but it wasn’t enough to drive you to the theaters.
Ryan (19:24)
Yeah, that’s true. You’re right.
cinik (19:25)
I unfortunately did see it in the theaters because I always try to see a movie when I’m on vacation. So I have something to kind of tie up the vacation with like whenever I see that movie, I think back to that vacation. And I was in San Antonio at the time and saw it and was highly disappointed. And I went in with super low expectations and they still managed to slide right under that bar.
Ryan (19:30)
Yeah.
So interesting, yeah.
Yeah, we don’t really yet. So no, it’s like unfortunate, but is is what it is. So, all right. So next bit of news. So I guess we’ll talk a little about the Super Bowl, which I did not watch, but uh, Cynic and Justin, I’m guessing you guys watched Super Bowl. So give me your quick, quick review of the Super Bowl first and then, uh, how are the commercials?
[email protected] (20:11)
Uh, I liked the whole thing. The commercials were solid. They, um, there weren’t too many, um, like overly trying to tug at your heartstrings. One, there was a couple of them that were annoying, but they were funny and they were good. Like nothing, uh, nothing, I didn’t think it was nothing too over the top. Um, I, I liked the, uh, the Usher and the halftime performance. It was nice. Um, especially there was a roller skating sequence, which was the best part I thought.
And it was a great game. It was a brutal game and it went down to the wire and that was that. So it was a good game to watch. I really didn’t have a dog in the fight, but except that I really was rooting for Kansas City just because of the whole Taylor Swift thing and like triggering the snowflake maga types that just like would root against.
Like just would root against Kansas City just because Taylor Swift is dating Kelsey. And people thought that. So just like anything that would be triggering like that was reason enough for me to root for them. So that’s that.
Ryan (21:26)
Yeah.
cinik (21:27)
Really interesting turn of events with Kelsey there because he did make some plays that made a difference in the Super Bowl. He did get his kiss on the field afterwards. However, during the course of the game, he bumped his very elderly coach Andy Reed and screamed at his face. Sounded like he was completely trashed at the parade. And then after this shooting went on, went out to dinner and was taking selfies with people. So.
[email protected] (21:32)
Yeah.
Yeah, he yelled at the coach.
Ryan (21:42)
Mm -hmm.
[email protected] (21:44)
Yeah, what was that all about?
Yeah.
cinik (21:52)
Uh, maybe, you know, maybe we’re, he’s getting too much attention to too much spotlight and that’s not, you know, that’s not his character and people are reading into it too much. Or maybe we’re actually seeing you, Travis Kelsey is, I mean, if you shine cameras on people for long enough, you’re going to, they’re, they’re going to revert to their, their natural state. And, uh, I’m starting to worry a little bit that he might be a little bit of a jerk. Like I’m all about this relationship, but I, you know, a couple of the things we’re troubling over this last couple of days.
Ryan (22:20)
Yeah.
cinik (22:20)
The game itself, a lot of fun, defensive battle in the first half, looked like it wasn’t going to be the Chief’s Knights. Went into halftime, turned it around. As, you know, Cidic so eloquently stated in the previous podcast, Patrick Mahomes was the X -Factor in it all, and basically put the team on his back and won the game, which was great for me. Happy to see him win. If they three -peat, I’m happy with that too, because I’m not quite tired of him yet. I don’t have the hangover I did with the Patriots. Commercials were fine.
I had a little bit of problem with them spending $20 million to promote Jesus when we could have been feeding the poor and the hungry with that. I mean, that’s just me. I mean, the money better spent. We’re all aware of Jesus. I mean, I don’t think this commercial’s got anybody up and out and going to church or possibly donating time at their local soup kitchen. So maybe possibly money that could have been spent someplace else. To me, the Standout commercial was probably the Dunkin’ Donuts commercial because it was hilariously cringy. And overall, yeah, it was a good night.
Ryan (23:13)
Yeah.
cinik (23:18)
The only problem I had with it is it went into overtime and really screwed up my sleep for the next day at work.
[email protected] (23:23)
Ahahaha.
Ryan (23:23)
Yeah. I did not have that problem. I think we were watching 3000 years of longing at that point. What was disappointing for me is I was expecting the finale for True Detective and I didn’t. So I guess they released the episode five early and I was behind a few episodes. So on like Friday or Saturday night, we just watched a bunch of episodes. So I just thought that we were like, oh, yeah, great. Tomorrow’s going to be the next episode. Not realizing that I’d already watched that episode.
cinik (23:53)
Yeah. Yeah, I’m all about that show. Still. I’m hanging in. Yeah, I like it.
Ryan (23:53)
So gotta wait, yeah, wait one more week for that. But it’s been good. Yeah, it’s solid. Yeah, it’s good. You know, not season one, but kind of, you know, very few things are as good as season one, but it’s pretty good. So I’m gonna try something for the first time. I’m gonna try to watch a trailer and then we can talk about that. So Justin, have you seen the Deadpool trailer? No, okay, good, good. All right, great. All right, so
[email protected] (23:54)
Yeah.
Ah, no.
Ryan (24:16)
trailer.
cinik (24:28)
Love that wig.
like the enhanced TVA uniforms.
Ryan (26:45)
All right, so are we excited for that?
[email protected] (26:49)
Um, I think it looks like a sort of a normal Marvel production that’ll be pretty entertaining and you know, lots of laughs, some good one -liners and sure, yeah, it looks good.
Ryan (27:06)
How are you excited based on the first two?
cinik (27:09)
Well, holding my tongue when you were talking about the previous Spider -Man movies where people were throwing babies out the windows or whatever you were talking about when the new movies were announced, part of the big hurrah with that is the fact that we were getting Spider -Man in the MCU with the other heroes. And we’re getting the same thing in this. Like we’re moving Deadpool into everything that we enjoy and he’s going to intermingle with Wolverine and possibly potentially other heroes. Plus maybe soft reset the MCU, which it sorely needs.
Ryan (27:23)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (27:39)
So yeah, I’m excited about it. I mean, I love the Deadpool movies. I think Ryan Reynolds was born to do this role. And yeah, I really think it’s gonna be a good time. And not to mention it’s out right around my birthday. If a couple of co -hosts wanna get together and go see it, that would be fantastic. Maybe buy me dinner for once.
Ryan (27:43)
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what’s what’s what’s crazy is like, remember when X -Men came out? How like what’s that 20 years, 25 years ago? And, you know, and the fact that we’re getting a comics accurate Wolverine suit for the first time is pretty crazy. Like that we you know, it’s been that long. We’ve had, you know, Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. And we’ve never gotten this. That just alone, you know, makes it worth it. And I guess that’s part of the baby throwing the babies in the air with Marvel because like,
[email protected] (28:05)
Yeah, something like that.
Yeah.
Ryan (28:24)
you know, Fox wouldn’t do it. And for whatever reason, and now we’re getting that. And so, yeah, I’m excited. It looks fun. And yeah, you’re right. Like, Ryan Reynolds was born to play this role. And what’s interesting though is in this case, because it’s R, it’s kind of interesting to see like how far is Disney going to allow this to go? Because I think Deadpool worked because obviously because it was hard R and there were very few limitations on what, you know, he could do or say in those first two movies. So it’ll be interesting to see what they do, what Disney allows or doesn’t allow here.
And in this case, I’m more, I’m less excited about how good of a movie it’ll be. Cause I think that the first two were hilarious and work. I’m more excited about like who he gets to interact with now that he’s part of like this world. So it should be fun.
[email protected] (29:00)
Yeah.
cinik (29:06)
Yeah, they were saying Dr. Doom might have been hidden in that trailer somewhere. And I have a feeling that we’re going to get the same level of language and violence and probably mostly crudity of jokes, but I don’t think we’ll be celebrating International Women’s Day this time around. Like, I think they’ll stay away from all sexual stuff and rightfully so. But when they brought them over, Feige and Iger both said that, you know, they’re going to be hands off when it comes to Deadpool in particular.
Ryan (29:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, probably.
Yeah, I think that makes sense. The other trailer, I don’t know if you guys saw it, but I won’t play it, but the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes trailer, did guys see that? Yeah, I thought those three, that trilogy was a fantastic trilogy, so I’m stoked. I think I’d love to see what they do with it. The trailer looks great, and I love that we’re getting more of that world, so yeah, solid trailer.
cinik (29:42)
Yeah, it looked fantastic.
[email protected] (29:45)
did see.
cinik (29:58)
get just recently they had a win at Comic Con and a lot of people got to meet and pose for pictures with Andy Serkis and out of all the people there like he’s the guy that I would have most likely like to meet.
Ryan (30:06)
Okay.
Yeah. Oh yeah. He seems great. He’s so good. It’s like, it’s funny that we didn’t, because he did so much motion capture work, I think we forgot or didn’t really realize like how good he is. I mean, I just loved him as Klaw. I watched Black Panther a few months, maybe a month ago or no, December, my wife, a Christmas gift was we got to see Black Panther at Carnegie Hall, I think it was, or somewhere where you were playing with an orchestra. And,
And it was really cool and I forgot like how good like, you know, just how good Andy Serkis, he was like, you know, in that role. And I just, you know, he’s one of those actors, I just will watch him in anything.
cinik (30:48)
I feel like one of the most underutilized villains as well. Like, they could have really done a lot more with him and they definitely shouldn’t have killed him.
Ryan (30:51)
Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. Yeah. I would, I’d love to see him. If they resurrected him, I’d be okay with it. Cause he, you know, he’s so good. So, um, next bit of news. So we’re going to shift away from pop culture to just some stupid stuff, but people at least suffering consequences. Um, so I’ll ask you, acidic, what are your thoughts on gender reveals?
cinik (31:13)
Oh, I think they’re completely dumb and just entitled, just entitled behavior. It only, well, I know this person won’t see this, but we got to go to a baby shower online during the pandemic. And, you know, it was fun for about 15 seconds. And then the person telling them everything that they went through during birth, everything they went through during labor, everything they went through. It’s just, nobody cares about you.
Ryan (31:25)
You
cinik (31:43)
At the end of the day, nobody cares what your cravings were like there was a big book, a list of things. It’s the same thing. The baby’s gender matters to about three or four people and the rest of the people are there just for the free pasta salad.
Ryan (31:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
And it’s so like self -indulgent and like, yeah, nobody cares.
cinik (31:58)
Oh yeah.
[email protected] (32:01)
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was going to say. It’s self -indulgent. It’s you care about, you know, like it’s almost like we’re forcing you to pretend to care about something that doesn’t really matter, but maybe matters to us or matters to me, right? So we want to make a big deal about this and we want you to, you know, give your support to it. It’s very self -indulgent. It’s like, yeah, you know, you have a, you know, you’re…
kid, that’s great, that should be what the important thing is, you know.
cinik (32:35)
Yeah, well, they used to be called baby showers. We got together for that and gave a shit for, or pretended to give a shit for, you know, 30 minutes and then free pasta salad. Now we have an additional party and we’ve got to buy additional presents. And nothing makes me happier than gender reveals that go horribly wrong when they set things on fire or blow things off. Or I love that. It’s like, this is what you get. This is what the universe has brought you.
Ryan (32:38)
Yeah.
[email protected] (32:39)
gender reveal.
Ryan (32:53)
Well, well, well you’re
You’re in luck because of the news item is, so this happened in 2020. I may butcher this name, but refugee Refugio Jimenez Jr. and Angela Jimenez pled guilty to several counts, including involuntary manslaughter. So basically it was an Eldorado park or sorry, Eldorado ranch park. And their, their gender reveal involves some kind of an explosive device that caused a 23 ,000 acre fire.
cinik (33:11)
They deserve it.
[email protected] (33:18)
Whoa.
Ryan (33:30)
And in the wake of all of this, 20 homes were destroyed, a firefighter was killed, and they pled guilty and they’re sentenced a year in jail, community service, and 1 .7 million restitution. So do you think they got enough of a punishment for that? Imagine being that kid, like your entire life, you know, like that was, you know, that’s your legacy.
[email protected] (33:38)
Ugh.
cinik (33:47)
But was it a boy or a girl? Because that’s the real important part.
[email protected] (33:57)
Well, the bigger thing is like, what if they do a gender reveal, but it turns out that that’s not the, that’s just the assigned gender that like the kid wants to choose a different gender. So.
Ryan (34:05)
haha
a whole other whole other can of worms.
cinik (34:10)
Is that another party? Because if there’s pasta salad, I’m there.
[email protected] (34:13)
could you could have a second gender reveal and third like you have multiple gender reveals.
Ryan (34:17)
That’s amazing. That would be quite funny.
cinik (34:23)
I think that the color there is just purple.
Ryan (34:25)
So you know that like, you may start like, so you may start something on like the really far far right. Like that where they’re like, that’s what the liberals are going to do now is have like, you know, we’re going to just start having like when we become a, when we’re adults, like we’ll have new gender reveal parties to showcase what our, what our, what we identify. Like, yeah.
[email protected] (34:42)
I’m sure that there’s something like that. I’m sure people have had things like that. Anything you can think of.
cinik (34:50)
You’re killing Ryan Justin. You’re literally killing him.
Ryan (34:52)
I got some kind of cough and like what sucks is anytime I start laughing I just start like hacking.
[email protected] (34:54)
Oh yeah. You know what my new thing is that I just discovered? I guess I always knew, I just didn’t know what the name for it was. Do you know what a feeder is?
cinik (35:07)
We’re not talking porn, are we?
Ryan (35:09)
It certainly sounds close. Yeah, what is it?
[email protected] (35:09)
Close to it, it is pretty much. It’s just people that have this, you know, that just get their sexual willies from either feeding people and making them gain weight or being fed, you know. So once again, anything you can think of, there’s someone out there for it.
Ryan (35:22)
Okay.
cinik (35:29)
I’m feeling attacked by a couple of Jimwits here.
Ryan (35:30)
All right, so then the last bit of news we didn’t touch on it last week, this is kind of sad news was Carl Weathers died a couple of you know, a couple weeks back and it’s kind of sad. It’s you know, it’s like look people die and and you know, but that one hit a little bit like that one. You know, I felt a little bit. So yeah, just kind of sad bit of news and somebody like
[email protected] (35:32)
Hahaha!
cinik (35:42)
Oof.
Yeah.
Ryan (35:56)
He just was in The Mandalorian and he directed some episodes and, you know, seemed perfectly healthy and fit and kind of, you know, just like sad, but, you know, awesome actor has been in, you know, some many iconic roles and was working right up until the end. So yeah, I just wanted to call that out and say to somebody who’s awesome and like, yeah, it was like one of those, one of the deaths that actually like, I felt a little bit.
cinik (36:15)
Well, after a long, illustrious career, many, many iconic roles. His last role was part of the grunt kick of destiny commercial, which, you know, doesn’t tarnish your legacy, but makes you wonder like, you know, because he knew he was sick, and he knew he was towards the end, like, is this the last thing you want to do? But yeah, you know, hats off to these motherfuckers that don’t say a word when they’re sick, you know, like just.
[email protected] (36:25)
Oh yeah, that’s funny.
Ryan (36:26)
Hehehehe.
[email protected] (36:36)
Why not?
Ryan (36:40)
Yeah.
cinik (36:42)
try to fight it, suffer it, suffering, you know, just dignity and keep a stiff upper lip and just keep going about their their, their life until it’s over. Like I can’t in a world where everybody wants attention for everything, you know, somebody, somebody breaks a finger in there, they’re on Facebook with their finger, you know, wrapped up, you know, which annoys the shit out of me. Like, I love when they go to the hospital for some unknown reason. And they’re like, Well, you know, I am me or message me. It’s like, you’re either going to tell us you’re not going to tell us or don’t post a fuck picture.
Ryan (36:55)
Yeah.
[email protected] (36:59)
I know, I know.
Ryan (37:10)
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
cinik (37:12)
But but Chadwick him you know, knowing that they were sick, not saying a word hats off, you know, that’s that’s some
[email protected] (37:12)
More self -indulgent crap.
All right, your favorite roles.
Ryan (37:23)
Okay, favorite roles. I mean, it’s
I will say, and cause I’ll let you guys get the famous, more famous ones, but I’m going to say actually, I liked him as grief, Karga and the Mandalorian. I thought he just played that. You know, he was, he was, he was great in that. And it was something that like for me as a, as a huge fan of star Wars, it was fun to see such an iconic actor, you know, in, in a role where he, he, he was having a blast playing that, that, you know, that was the other part of it. It was, it wasn’t like, here’s this guy who’s like,
You know, a lot of times you’ll get these older actors who are doing something like Star Wars. It’s like, oh, this is kid stuff and they kind of don’t take it seriously. But he was, he seemed like he was having a blast in the role and I enjoyed it. And, and it was one of those characters, like one of my favorite characters on that show. So, you know, he’s going to be missed. Like, you know, he’s, he’s a mainstay on that show and like to not, to know that he’s not going to be in the next season kind of sucks. So I’ll say that’s mine. What about you Zinnick?
cinik (38:15)
Well, that was it. And when he showed up, like I completely disagreed with the casting. I was like, oh, this isn’t going to be good. You know, it’s just not his type of role. Yeah, but I’m saying pre -shower movie. Once he’s in the shower movie, I have every right to bitch and complain because I spent that Disney plus money. So yeah, I wasn’t crazy about the casting when I saw it. And he has two of the funniest lines that will ever be said on that show, the do the magic hand thing, baby. And, uh,
[email protected] (38:23)
I thought you weren’t a casting director.
Ryan (38:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (38:43)
Oh, there was one point where he screamed, he’s trying to eat me, which I fucking died and I watched the episodes just to hear those. Right? He was like a doting grandfather.
Ryan (38:47)
Yeah.
His chemistry with the with I mean baby Yoda was so great. It’s like he was acting with this doll. Yeah, it was it was amazing. It was so good
cinik (38:58)
I absolutely love what they did with that. But I’ve got to go with his most important role, which was Apollo. Because he was a representative of combat sports for so many people. He embodied everything that was Muhammad Ali. He saved that movie and made it interesting because there’s no way that Rocky is anything what it was without –
Ryan (39:15)
Yeah.
cinik (39:28)
without Apollo Creed.
Ryan (39:31)
Bye you, Justin.
[email protected] (39:32)
Yeah, obviously, like, yeah, with Apollo, but of course, he helped make that franchise and everything based afterwards. But, you know, personally, I got to say him playing himself on.
Just so funny. And we didn’t think of him necessarily as a comedic actor before, but he was just, it just makes me laugh thinking about that role. It’s just so brilliant.
Ryan (39:50)
Yeah, that’s a good call.
Yeah. No, that’s, that’s a good, that’s a good call. That’s a, that’s actually, I wasn’t even thinking about that, but you’re absolutely right.
cinik (40:09)
So let me ask you guys this real quick before we go any further. With him being off the Mandalorian, does any party want to see Gina Carano come back? Because there’s kind of that whole of older cast members, there’s nobody really left from the original season.
Ryan (40:27)
I will say no because I just don’t like her. And I don’t like people, like we talked about this last episode. You have freedom of speech, but you’re not free from consequences. And Disney’s a business and they can do whatever they want. And if you violate the clauses in your contract, they cannot bring you back. And I don’t like it when people kind of violate those kinds of rules and then win. So it’s a situation where it’s like,
All she had to do is not say stupid stuff online. And she’d have her job and she decided not to. And those are the consequences. So to give her back, I just feel like without, without having done anything that to me has showcased any, any remorse or any like, you know, it’s like she said, you know what? That was insensitive. I shouldn’t have said that or whatever. Like she hasn’t done that. So I, so she hasn’t done any of the work. So I don’t think she should be rewarded for it. So I think that’s part one, kind of my personal, but if I take myself out of it and personal feelings aside, I think the show’s kind of.
evolved a bit, it’s become a different thing. So I don’t know that she’s needed for the show to, you know, for, you know, I don’t think she’s needed because I think we’ve moved past a lot of that just with where the show has gone. So yeah, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t think she’s necessary. She’s not, it’s not like, um, the performance was so good. You know, it’s like, like, I feel like missing, um, you know, losing Carl Weathers as an actor will be missed because that, you know, not only is he part of that core group from the first season,
but he’s just such a good actor and he did so well in that role. Where with Gina Carano, yeah, she has great physicality, but you’re not losing, you know, it’s not like you’re losing something, you know, in her performance. You know, it’s not like we’re gonna miss her, you know? And so yeah, I don’t think she’s necessary for any reason moving forward. So, and I doubt that Disney is gonna go that route.
cinik (42:13)
I mean, if we’re being fair, I say insensitive stuff all the time and you guys just keep asking me back.
Ryan (42:17)
Yeah, exactly. So, well, yeah. But yeah, no, so that’s my thoughts. So anyway, let’s get to our main topic subject today. We’re gonna talk a bit about AI, mainly in art and more I’m gonna, I’ve got some interest, I’ve got some questions. So I wanna see what your guys’ thoughts are once we get into kind of a little bit about like, about AI in art and our usage of it and whether or not like we should use AI art. Cause I think there are some important questions with that. So I know we’ve talked about it a little bit with chat GPT.
[email protected] (42:18)
You
Ryan (42:47)
But I’ll go a little bit, just wanna get a little bit of the basics on like how AI works, right? So, and this is very, very high level. There are far better sources if you wanna learn how everything works. But basically, for the most part with the way that the AI that we’ve all been interacting with and that’s become like the big thing everywhere. I think we see it’s like, part of everyday life, everything we do has some AI component now.
But the way that it works, especially with the things that we work with, whether it’s like Chat GPT or one of the AI art programs, it’s basically operating on a kind of principle of machine learning, which is basically just like using algorithms and statistical models to allow computers to like quote unquote learn. And so what happens basically is you have a system that’s fed insane amounts of data, like amounts that like are not helping, you know, potentially climate change and make it worse over time. That’s a whole other issue that we’re not gonna talk about.
But over time, like after getting fed all this data, that system kind of starts to identify like patterns, trends, relationships, and then eventually it’s able to make its own choices based out of like new information or things that are unseen. So like to put this a little better context, we’re gonna be talking a little bit more about art. So with Mid Journey, right, which is the AI art, one of the probably the best or the most advanced of the AI art programs and the one that I’ve used.
Um, the way it works is it’s basically fed like image and text pairs. So it’s fed like, you know, it’ll be an image of a banana and it’ll say it’s a banana, you know, whatever it is, like you get a million, you know, you get millions and billions and billions of images and text pairs. And it starts to realize, okay, I’ve seen X amount of bananas from every single angle and every direction and all these colors. And it starts to kind of figure out, okay, this is generally what this thing is. Right. So it’s sorry. Basically it gets fed just insane amounts of data, insane amounts of photo, you know,
image text pairs, and then eventually it figures out, okay, this is, this is what the thing is. And so over time, you know, this type of program learns like you put an input, which is whatever I want. I want, you know, an image of, of, of cynic naked, you know, pissing on, on homeless guys in Penn Station. And it will output something based on what I input. And, you know, so.
cinik (45:03)
You don’t need AI for that, baby. That’s called a Friday night.
Ryan (45:08)
with more or less results, right? Like, so it may not, like, for example, if I say cynic, it may not get you because it may not have been fed millions and billions of images of you, but, you know, so, and it comes up with some interesting things and not everything is perfect. But, you know, if you, if anyone that’s played around with any of this, even for a few seconds has learned, it can come up with some pretty incredible, you know, images, you know, and anyone who denies that is just, you know,
full of crap. Like I think there’s a lot of people who are against AI art philosophically, which I get, but you can’t deny that what it comes up with is pretty good. Some of it’s pretty bad, but some of it’s pretty good and interesting. So the last thing I’ll kind of talk about, then I’ll ask you guys a little bit about some of these moral questions with it, is like it’s developed the rise of like the prompt creator. And Justin, you know this as someone who uses chat GPT is like the prompt creator, prompt creation is basically the person that inputs into the system and lets it give,
you know, and then it gives you the output. So the prompt creator becomes really important because there’s this weird feedback loop. You have to learn the right prompts to give the AI to give you the right result, whether you’re using a text -based program or you’re using, you know, image -based. So the prompt creator then becomes really important. And it’s become like this little cottage industry of people that like, that’s what they do is they get paid to prompt create, whether it’s art or whatever it is. And if you use these, you start to learn like it really becomes important how
what words and the language you use is gonna make a big difference in what you get out of it. And so then prompt creation becomes actually a very important aspect of all of this. So I guess the first question, like of the many moral questions, and I’ll ask you Justin, is based on what you know with all of it. The first thing is like, who is the author or who’s the creator, right? Like if you type, if you create,
an AI art thing. Let’s say again, or I want, I want that picture of cynic, right? Am I the author? Is the AI, you know, kind of in the ether, the author or, or is the person that created the software, the person that’s the author of that, like who is the creator?
[email protected] (47:17)
Okay, so first off, I will say that the person who created the software is not the author, right? Right off the bat, and you can give other examples, for instance, that go way back further before AI stuff, like for instance, the inventing of musical synthesizers, and you can hit randomize where it’ll…
Ryan (47:26)
Okay, interesting, yeah.
Okay.
[email protected] (47:46)
random like, you know, and create this, you know, some melodies or something like that. No, that’s just a randomizer. So the person who created the software is not the did not write that, you know, so who did? Right. I think there’s I’m not not doing this to be obtuse, but I don’t I don’t think there’s any author. And I think you could I think you can chalk it up to that.
where there’s a machine that has learned to create, but the machine isn’t a person. So, right, the machine can create things, but it’s not a person. So is that an author?
I mean, you also get into some semantics as well. Well, technically it is. The machine created it, so it’s the author. So that would be the closest to it because, but can an author be someone who isn’t human? And I’ll throw in one more thing, that there is no such thing as original thought.
Ryan (48:51)
Yeah, okay, okay, well let me ask you something, um, Bae, yeah.
[email protected] (49:03)
as original creation. So everything that the AI is doing to create is what your brain is doing when it creates, whether it creates art, whether it’s writing.
Ryan (49:03)
Okay, well, yeah.
Yeah, well, let’s, and we’ll get into that a little bit more, because we’re gonna talk about that, because I think the biggest argument against it, or one of them is that it’s theft, and so I wanna talk about that, so we’ll come back to that. So now, Sinic, I guess I’ll ask you a question. So Justin thinks it’s not, like there’s no necessary authorship. Who do you think owns the property then? Again, I create that, I put in that prompt, it spits something out. Who should own that image, if anybody?
cinik (49:40)
But that’s the problem, right? Is how are we gonna determine that at the end of the day?
Ryan (49:43)
Yeah, and that’s one of the big questions. That’s the second big question is, yeah, who deserves ownership and for commercial rights? Does anyone deserve it?
cinik (49:52)
Yeah, but as when gold did a big video on this not too long ago because he kind of agrees with a our art and I really think is it’s gonna be the enforcement of it is really gonna be the problem it’s you know, because they’ll just say we do set standards, right and Alright, this is what this is who owns it. This is who’s from, you know you financially set the game from it
Ryan (50:04)
Yeah.
cinik (50:17)
they’ll just take it and slightly alter the image and put it back out there. And like the goalpost will change whenever they try to set up rules and regulations for it. So it’s really, I don’t think there’s going to be a way to determine that because, you know, whoever’s style came from 1000 other artists as well, you know, like, there is no original style, there’s no, no one’s doing anything that’s never been done before. This is why when we get into these music publishing cases, it’s so hard, because it’s like, every
Ryan (50:36)
Yeah. Yeah.
cinik (50:47)
every note or every keystroke or every music melody has kind of been done. So everything is derivative of everything, right?
Ryan (50:53)
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. That is a big part of the problem. And yeah, and this is like, these are questions where it’s like, there is no real answer, you know, because it is trained on things. You know, so theoretically, like you could say, you know, it’s like, does the owner of Mid Journey own, should they own the images? Should I own it? Because at the end of the day, they got the ball rolling on it, but then the system figured it out.
you know, do I get it? Because, you know, if I’m a good prompt creator, I’m going to get it to come up with some really cool stuff. And maybe I deserve credit as the person that is able to get it to bend to my whims. And so yeah, that is like a major question that really hasn’t been answered. And I think, yeah.
cinik (51:35)
Questions like that are becoming more and more murky and that’s why I believe you haven’t seen the Pokemon lawsuit against Power World yet because it’s very similar. The aspect of the games other than capturing the creatures in a ball, I mean, it’s all very similar yet there’s been a lawsuit and that’s one of the biggest games in the world. Pokemon is a huge IP and you would think that if anybody infringed on it, you know…
Ryan (51:37)
Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (52:02)
a cease and desist would come out right away and it hasn’t happened yet. So either there’s been a backroom deal that we don’t know about or they don’t have a case. So it should be interesting to see where that kind of goes.
Ryan (52:11)
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s like the Wild West. I think this isn’t something I really set to talk much about. But part of the issue is, I feel like in a lot of ways, AI is in that position where, and we talked about this I think before, that AI is in a position where early internet was, where no one knew what to do with it. And I think the government didn’t get around to regulating it until it was too late. And then you ended up in a world where these massive companies can really influence society in ways that…
cinik (52:40)
Well, like I said last week, not only are they coming for our lives at some point, but they’re also coming for our jobs. And, you know, there’s not a one of us where a computer can’t replace what we do. Going back 10, 15, even 20 years ago now, I worked with a gentleman where he used to do the sketches for popular mechanics. You know, those real in -depth sketches of cars and car parts and, but he was just a contractor.
Ryan (52:44)
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (53:07)
So he didn’t have any rights to the sketches once he gave them to me he got his check for the week and he was done But computers replaced him and that he was out of luck He was not only out of a job, but they weren’t gonna ask him to do anymore
Ryan (53:09)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know that creates a major issue. So the other issue now is like this comes down to the big, maybe the biggest thing is consent right now when it comes to AI art is the big thing is, so these systems are trained on art from, you know, just again, in order for it to learn, it needs a lot of data. And so part of the issue and the big argument from a lot of people is basically that, hey, you’re using my art to train.
So I, you know, and I don’t consent to it. And, you know, either I deserve compensation or that, you know, my work needs to be taken out of your system. Like, you know, you, you need to ask, you can’t just pull stuff. So I guess that then begs a question of, you know, if, if let’s say things are freely available online, is it okay for that system to, to, to take, to use it, to learn? Because, you know, like you guys alluded to,
you know, that’s how artists learn, you know, you, you, you view art and you develop a style based on taking in tons and tons of different art. It’s how you learn music or how you learn how to do anything artistic is like, again, nothing is original. It’s all kind of derivative of the things that we learn in our experiences. So is there, is there a difference between the machines doing it? Like is, is that it’s a machine? Is that the difference? Um, and what do you guys think about that? Like does it, should, should you have to be required? Like should the system be required to gain consent?
from all the people that are inputting data into it.
[email protected] (54:44)
I think there are two elements to it. There’s sort of the ethical, moral idea and then the legal slash practical. First, starting with the legal, practical, it’s gonna be damn near impossible. There’s images out there, how are you gonna stop? It’s gonna be, it’s…
Ryan (55:05)
I mean, let’s say, theoretically, let’s say you can build a system that, I don’t know, if it has to then have the database of what it pulled from or whatever it is. Yeah, you’re right. Like, it would be hard, but let’s just, yeah. Well, I’ll let you finish your thought, yeah.
[email protected] (55:18)
It would only be for, so it would, the only to me in my super not, you know, creative tech heavy mind is that whenever, whenever new copyright images or new, new things come out, that they’re embedded with metadata that set basically tells the machine you are not allowed to learn this without, without permission. So, but what are you going to do about all the stuff that’s already out there?
Ryan (55:45)
That wouldn’t even work, yeah. Yeah. But then…
[email protected] (55:48)
It’s just, I mean, what are people gonna go through their old, you know, any image that is owned by some, like, and start, you know, putting metadata in. I guess you could have, you know, design a program to do that. But it just seems so, logistically, it’s very difficult. Okay, so now onto the moral, ethical thing. I think that…
Ryan (56:02)
But forgetting logistics, do you think it’s moral? Like is it right that, yeah, yeah.
[email protected] (56:14)
I don’t discern the difference between a machine doing it and a human brain doing it. It’s coming from the same place. And if a human, if a brain can say, I’m going to look at all these images, I’m going to listen to all these songs, I’m going to learn all these, I’m going to read a lot, then a machine can do it too. And I know that the thought is, well, a machine can do a lot, can read all that you can read in
Ryan (56:39)
Yeah.
[email protected] (56:43)
in a thousand of your lifetimes in a couple seconds, right? But it doesn’t matter. That’s not…
Ryan (56:46)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so there is a difference, but there is a difference between us and a machine.
[email protected] (56:53)
There is, but when you put stuff out there, it’s well known. And even if you look at things like fair use, you’re allowed to educate yourself with stuff that’s out there. That’s just how it goes. Especially nowadays, you’re allowed to listen to something. Yeah. I think that…
Ryan (57:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
[email protected] (57:20)
Once we went that once the can of worms was opened with the internet and everything being free for the most part, you can’t stop it, right? And it’s not, I think it’s not moral to stop it or ethical. And it’s also logistically impossible to stop it. If you don’t want your content to be viewed by a machine, you put a paywall in front of it that a machine can’t access unless whoever’s behind it.
pays for that content, in which case you’re allowing them because they’re paying for it. So that’s just how it goes. I just don’t think that you can, I don’t think you can say, oh, now, you know, machine is not allowed to learn my stuff. It’s out there, right? It’s how it goes.
Ryan (57:57)
So, uh…
So then let me ask you, or neither of you guys can answer this, so if that’s the case, right, if that’s your belief, and I’m not sure where I land on it, because it’s not, you know, because these machines are capable of so much more. At the end of the day, we have seen an exponential rise in the power of what these things can do. And in some cases, I think, you know, chat GPT, as great as it is, it’s still kind of like advanced Google search. You know, it’s not like, you know, it’s not, I don’t think it’s sentient yet, but it’s still pretty impressive and an incredibly useful tool. I think the art, again, it’s great, but we kind of,
know what it’s doing, but it’s still the growth has been insane in just, I mean, a short period of time. Like there is a point where this does take all of our jobs. So if that’s the case, if we’re going to look, if we look at it as well, I mean, nothing we could do, you know, toothpaste out of the tube, then does that make create an entire paradigm shift in just how we look at our society? Like, do we just have to change? Cause I think you can’t have, you can’t allow it to go unchecked.
[email protected] (58:37)
Sentient yet being the key phrase.
Ryan (59:04)
right? Or to treat it like, well, I mean, it’s no different from human without completely changing how we live our worlds. Because like, there is a, there’s, there’s a situation where you can have hundreds of thousands, millions of people, not millions of people out of a job, because the AI is going to do what they can do and much, much better.
cinik (59:21)
Well, they’re already working on that in the fast food industry.
[email protected] (59:22)
So I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I gotta bring this up. It’s funny that I forgot the comedian that was doing this bit, but it just reminded you. We all thought that AI was gonna do the shit jobs. There was gonna be like these little things cleaning up, cleaning the streets, taking out the garbage, doing your dishes without you. And then we would be able to create.
Ryan (59:51)
No. Yeah.
[email protected] (59:51)
and we would be able to write and sing and do all this fun stuff while the AI did the shit job, but it’s exactly the opposite. We’re doing the shit jobs while AI is doing all the creation.
Ryan (59:59)
No, the opposite. The AIs create. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah, no, wait.
cinik (1:00:05)
Well, a perfect example of that, interestingly enough, I was in a local supermarket and there’s a little droid running around rolling through the place. And I said to one of the workers there, I said, oh, does that thing roam around cleaning up messes? And she’s like, oh no, that tells us where the messes are for us to clean up.
Ryan (1:00:24)
Of course. Yeah, that’s it. But yes, so, so, so, Sinek, what, what are your thoughts? Do you think that we’re going to have to have a complete shift in how we, we live in this world in order to accommodate for AI? Yeah.
cinik (1:00:34)
Oh, eventually, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, they’re already working on that in the fast food industry. Before long, there’s not going to be anybody working in fast food restaurants.
Ryan (1:00:40)
Yeah. But then I mean, like, as far as like, will the government have to, you know, I mean, maybe this is a good thing, right? If we have all the AI doing everything. Well, but then how are we going to live and earn an, you know, well, do we then end up in this weird, like socialist, like utopia where we, you know, because AI does everything for us? Because like, again, we, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right.
[email protected] (1:00:49)
No, AI is going to be the government. It’s going to be like Futurama style with like heads.
cinik (1:01:00)
I don’t like our chances. I don’t like your chances that actually happened. I mean, hell, I’m worried with you guys. We could do this 24 seven if you want. If that happens, and we don’t got to go to work, I’ll sit and bullshit with you guys all day long. But the problem is, is I think overall conditions will get worse for everybody. Because they’re not gonna, you know, they’re not gonna give everybody a middle class life. It’s gonna be, you know, like the camps from Hunger Games. It’s, it’s not gonna be great if that happens. Once people, go ahead.
Ryan (1:01:10)
Yeah.
So yeah, that, yeah, no, that, I mean, that’s a scary thing to me is like, if we accept it and not unregulated, but if we accept it as like, it is what it is and like, you know, then yeah, there’s gonna have to be massive changes. And I do not, like we’re so divided now, you know, we couldn’t get through COVID, we barely got through COVID. Like, I don’t know how we’re gonna work out like this. Okay, here’s how we’re gonna accommodate for the fact that AI has taken over, you know, everything. Yeah.
cinik (1:01:51)
jumping back a little bit and it’s not just say your artwork Justin, but you know to the tens or 20s or hundreds of people that are listening to this podcast, go ahead and push pause right now and I want you to go to Google and I want you to put your phone number in there and there are sites where not only is your phone number there but your address, your age, the people you live with, it is scary how much information is out there and there’s very little you can do to stop it.
Ryan (1:02:20)
Yeah.
cinik (1:02:21)
I went and there was as many as five sites that had all that information about me public. And I was able to strike it down, but then I went back a couple months later and there was another site and Google refused to remove it from their search. So it’s really, truly scary. Like how much of not only just our work, but our information’s out there. Like, and what do you do when they refuse to take it down? Well, I guess maybe move, change your phone number. What do you do?
Ryan (1:02:42)
Yeah.
cinik (1:02:49)
And that’s the situation we’re in. So if you’re an artist with thousands of pieces of artwork, you know, and it’s already out there, how do you pull that back once it’s out? Like you said, the toothpaste is out of the tube.
Ryan (1:02:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, it’s hard and a tough, you know, tough question at this point. And, you know, so I guess, so I guess we’ll get to some of the, because there are other moral questions we don’t need to go too far into. I think there’s, you like part of the AI is like, you know, I think the two other things really is like bias and transparency. So basically like how transparent should the systems be as far as how they deal, you know, how it, how it manages the data and comes up with whatever it comes up with. And then, you know, are there inherent biases like.
based on the data that it does use. And so I think those are things, again, I don’t think they’re as big as the others, although they are important. But I guess the question we’ll get to when it comes to art that I wanna ask you guys is, I guess the first question is, and we touched on it a bit, but is AI art art?
Justin or yeah, cynic. Yeah.
cinik (1:03:50)
I mean, we’re falling into a situation where anything you want to be art is art. It’s like, what are we, art critics over here? I mean, if anything, I would personally, I would really be happy if they left art alone because I’m tired of seeing these videos of these climate change protesters throwing shit on priceless works of art that can never be replicated again, well, until the computers take over. But…
[email protected] (1:03:51)
You
Ryan (1:03:56)
semantic maybe.
[email protected] (1:03:58)
Yeah.
Ryan (1:03:59)
Yeah.
Yeah
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
cinik (1:04:18)
That bothers the shit out of me when I see that when they’re throwing shit at the Mona Lisa, like it makes me physically angry because it’s like this thing has survived thousands of years. And because you have an axe to grind with the oil company, you’re going to go destroy it for everybody else. I just don’t understand.
Ryan (1:04:31)
So, but now Justin, is there a difference between AI generated art and human art beyond the fact that they may look different? Is it inherently the same thing or is the fact that the human generated art is created by a human, does that give it some more inherent value?
[email protected] (1:04:47)
Um, uh, I think the value is in the quality of the work. And that to me is, is, is the most important thing. If, um, AI can come up with something that is enjoyable to look at, enjoyable to listen to or watch, then so be it. Uh, it’s, um, right now has it, uh, we’re sort of borderline where it’s, yeah, certain things are image, you know,
Some of these are sort of cool to look at. There have been some AI songs that have been made. Of course, there’s someone there putting in the prompts and telling it what to do. So I don’t discern the difference. And look, it’s not fun saying that, but hey, if the computer can come up with something, or not the computer, if the AI model can come up with something,
then that’s what it is. It exists. And if you didn’t know who made it and you’re looking at something, you would say, yeah, that’s art, that’s music, that’s whatever it is. And it’s a little bit of semantics. What it exists as is what it is. It doesn’t matter who made it. Now, of course, there’s other issues along with who made it, but I think for what it is,
You know, it doesn’t matter all that much. I don’t see it.
Ryan (1:06:19)
Yeah. So now we talked about consent when it comes to this and that people are frustrated. So the big argument against it again is that, you know, for some people, so I will dispel one kind of myth. So I think one thing that some people will argue, you know, people that argue against it, and again, there are many potential problems with AI art, but I one argument people make against it is that it’s almost like it’s like copy and paste. Like, you know, it’s taking an image and copying that image and pasting it to create the new thing that you get. And that’s not what it’s doing.
Like it’s actually creating these things out of whole cloth, you know, so it’s not like it’s copying bits and pieces of things and then like spitting it out there. It is actually making this thing up out of whole cloth based on again, all of this data that it has. But because it is trained on things that, you know, on art made by humans and because many of these humans did not consent to it, cynic, do you think there’s a legit argument when people say that it’s theft? You know, that, so you think so, yeah.
[email protected] (1:06:48)
No. Yeah.
cinik (1:07:16)
Well, it absolutely is. I mean, yeah, theft concept, theft idea. Yeah, absolutely is. I mean.
Ryan (1:07:21)
So what makes that different though than like me drawing something where I’m influenced by other people?
cinik (1:07:29)
because there’s a good chance that your drawing isn’t going to be as good, if not better than the original.
[email protected] (1:07:36)
But why should it matter how the quality of the work based on how it was achieved?
cinik (1:07:42)
So if you start turning out better Disney cartoons or drawings, well, Walton company shouldn’t come visit you.
[email protected] (1:07:51)
Well, but they’re two separate issues. The question is whether it’s theft. Everything, right, if you look at it, oh, okay, well now, once you start going down the realm of making money off of something, and then there’s other issues, like are you trying to do a better version of something out there? Or is it just, is it still your original idea? And then who owns the, you know, it starts going down,
cinik (1:07:55)
If he’s profiting off of it just in its theft
If you’re just.
[email protected] (1:08:20)
all these roads, it’s like, all right, we’re doing art, you know, drawings of Spider -Man. Well, right now, who owns the likeness of Spider -Man? Right? So, right, then what do they have? Like, now, so now don’t they have the image? But then it can be said for anyone who makes, who draws Spider -Man, right? That…
Ryan (1:08:34)
Well, you dug down a rabbit hole because…
Well, you dive down a bit of a rabbit hole there because like you could say like, maybe I say I want a picture, a picture of cynic, but I want it in the style of Van Gogh. So is that then theft because I’m asking for it to do it in a specific style or does that not matter? And then that’s a whole other thing. But so cynic, you do think though that it is theft if somebody doesn’t consent. Justin, I’m sensing you don’t agree with that.
[email protected] (1:08:52)
Yeah.
cinik (1:09:05)
Yeah.
[email protected] (1:09:08)
I don’t agree, based on sort of the same things, that with images and there is a legal standard for copyright stuff, which is basically, or trademark or whatever it is, which is basically taking intellectual property. And I think…
Ryan (1:09:32)
But is it not? Like, it’s training on intellectual property, right?
cinik (1:09:34)
Well, let me bring it home to you, Justin. You write music, right? Songs and such. So if I take your song and do a remix and then I start selling it, is it not theft?
[email protected] (1:09:35)
but at both.
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
So it’s.
Ryan (1:09:47)
That’s not quite what it, so that’s kind of like when I mentioned that earlier, it’s not cutting and pasting the, it’s not like, it would be different if it’s like, if I take all of your songs, feed it into a system, and then ask it to write a song, and it creates a brand new song, is that new song theft? Because it’s not cutting and pasting like Justin’s work, it’s not remixing it. Yeah.
cinik (1:09:53)
But I changed it.
[email protected] (1:10:00)
In the style of, yeah. Yeah.
cinik (1:10:05)
No, it’s, it’s, I, I really don’t think it is. I think they’re doing that with artists now, aren’t they? Yeah. But, but I don’t think anybody is, is profiting off of that yet. It’s just, it’s, you know, yeah. Yeah. But that, that, that’s ultimately where it leads. That’s where all of this leads. When somebody starts making Snoop Dogg albums without Snoop Dogg, it’s going to be, it’s going to be an issue.
Ryan (1:10:11)
Yeah, they are, yeah. Like they’ll create a song in the style of whatever. No. Well, that’s a whole other question, yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (1:10:31)
Well, I think that you can make a Snoop Dogg record with it sounding just like him, but if it’s not using his exact lyrics, if the melodies that are in his songs are not being used by the copyright standard, I think it’s gonna be, from legal perspective, it’s gonna be almost impossible to say, oh, you know, he…
well, they have a voice that sounds like mine. There’s a lot of, you know, in music, it’s actually sort of an industry thing to get a sound alike, where you can have someone who sings just like another singer. It’s done all the time. And there’s absolutely nothing, you cannot copyright the way that you perform, the way that you sound. You can’t do that. People have tried and they’ve just almost always failed unless there’s a specific,
So yeah, you can’t, if you’re in the style of an artist, right, or in the style of a filmmaker, for instance, right, it’s just, it could do it better than it’s like, all right, well, I want, you know, I have this idea for a funny movie, right, that I’ve been playing, it’s called The Interception. It’s sort of like a Guy Ritchie style movie about these bunch of capers who…
you know, like these hoods who kidnapped the big, you know, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, quarterback, hero, right before the Super Bowl. And it’s like, they’re all these bumbling buffoons, you know, doing that. And I was thinking, well, what if you could get AI to, you know, we have the script, but we want it to be like Guy Ritchie style, right? So we have the AI direct the film. So, and it’s very much so looks like a Guy Ritchie film.
Well, now, like, does he have a right to sue? There’s just no way that he could win that because we didn’t exactly copy anything he wrote. It’s just in the style of, even if a machine directed the film for us, right?
Ryan (1:12:35)
Yeah. Wha – Yeah.
Yeah, well, I think it’s a gray area right now that we don’t know that that’s where it is like we have we just don’t know where any of this is gonna go because there might be a world where the government says all right, you know AI systems cannot copy in the style of without consent, whatever it is, you know, like we just don’t know yet. So I want to pose one more. Yeah, I mean, it’s gonna be really hard. So I’ll pose one more question to you guys, because this is what kind of got me diving down the rabbit hole of AI, which is interesting is. So I was I was online one day and.
cinik (1:12:55)
they’re not gonna be able to stop it.
Ryan (1:13:09)
And like we talked about prompt creators, right? Which I think, okay, fine. Prompt creators is one thing, but people were referring to themselves as AI artists. And in a lot of these art communities and comic communities, people freaked out. Like, you’re not an artist. Like you, you, you’re a prompt creator. So I’ll ask you first, Cynic, your thoughts is an AI artist an artist or are they just, should they just be called a prompt creator and not, and not besmirch the name of people who actually have, you know, the technical skills when it comes to art.
cinik (1:13:37)
Well, back in the day, I used to have a big boombox and a tape recorder and I used to record songs off the radio whenever they’d come on, you’d hear the thump thunk and you would record your favorite song that you waited on. So you probably got some of the DJ’s introduction, probably some of the commercial that follows. Did that make me a record producer or did that make me, you know, did I, what was that? No, it doesn’t make you an artist.
It makes you somebody that threw a couple keywords into a program. An artist is something that actually creates something from original idea and that’s, you’re not doing that. You’re making a collage. It’s basically like, what do they call those boards that people put what they want, like a wishboard. That’s all you’re doing is that you’re just throwing things up there and looking to see if they work. It doesn’t make you an artist.
Ryan (1:14:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
cinik (1:14:35)
It just makes you somebody that is able to spell a word correctly.
Ryan (1:14:38)
That’s a fair point. Now, Jess, what are your thoughts? Is an AI artist an artist?
[email protected] (1:14:42)
I just, I don’t love semantics because, right, like the term artist, like what if someone like brings prompt creation to a whole artistic level, they’re so good at it, right, and they do it this very unique style, well then, are they an artist? I don’t know, it’s a, you know, we have the same, you know, based on what Siddiqui was saying, we have the same arguments about DJs. Well, what is DJ? Right, they’re taking other, that don’t,
create their own music. Well, the common consensus was that a DJ was not a musician, but was an artist. They are artistic at what they do. And I think that there are some DJs that are so good at it, they bring it to an art form. But they are still physically doing something. They’re choosing and they’re creating based on what it is. So now does the now someone who is really good at prompts, can that same standard be brought to them?
Ryan (1:15:13)
Yeah, as a DJ musician, right? Yeah, that’s fair.
[email protected] (1:15:42)
well, I mean, an artist maybe in the loose form, sort of a loose way of using the term, maybe. When you say, oh, this person is an artist, well, they’re really not, but that’s just the way the word is used. But they could almost be considered like a writer, but then a writer is an artist too. So it just goes down to semantics. But in the traditional sense, I would say no.
Ryan (1:16:02)
Yeah. Yeah. So I think you’re right. Like there’s.
Yeah, so I think that’s the thing.
[email protected] (1:16:09)
They are not an artist, they are not physically drawing anything. But then you can say, but then, all right, so then what about this idea? What if someone is physically unable to draw? But they are able to, through whatever means, create this great, these visually stunning pieces. Are they not an artist? But they are thinking of the art, you know, so.
Ryan (1:16:22)
Yep, no that’s –
Well, okay, so, yeah, I think it becomes a very nebulous, I guess, topic, right? Because I think on some level, some people that just, they type some stuff into Mid Journey and consider themselves artists, they’re not artists in that sense, in the sense that they’re saying it, right? Like, I’m an AI artist. Like, no, you’re a prompt creator. Like, that’s cool, that’s a skill. It takes skill to learn how to manipulate the system, but you’re not an artist in that sense. I do think, you can, but then it gets like,
[email protected] (1:16:47)
That’s that’s the…
Yes.
Ryan (1:17:01)
conceptually, if you’re coming up with really interesting ideas and then using mid -journey or Dali as a tool to express that idea, then that could rise to the level of an artist. But then we’re, yeah, same as like a writer is an artist or a poet is an artist. So yeah, I think, you know, yeah, there’s not, I think the way that I see it written sometimes bothers me because it’s like, no, you’re not an artist. Like, don’t, you know, like they’ll show off their generic stuff that they created in mid -journey and say AI artist for hire. And it’s like, yeah.
[email protected] (1:17:13)
Sure.
Ryan (1:17:30)
You’re not, you know, like that, that’s you’re not an artist, but again, if you have some beautiful idea that, you know, for whatever reason you’re able to take advantage of these, you know, systems to use it, then, um, I’m, you know, then, okay, fine. I can give you, you know, a little bit of that, you know. Yeah.
cinik (1:17:44)
Yeah, but it’s not an original idea. Because I decided to throw… No, because you’re just… You’re combining things. So, I’m making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich one day, and I decide to throw a banana in there. Does that make me a sandwich artist?
Ryan (1:17:57)
Well, so that’s the thing. I think it’s part of a larger thing. So it’s like, you’re not the artist as like the creator of this work, but you might be, if there’s an idea behind it. Let’s say I have a story that I’m able, that I tell through my creating things in mid -journey, and it really is something that’s thought provoking. That might rise to the realm of an artist, but you’re right. Like I think, it’s not.
I think it’s rare that I’m going to consider somebody like an artist that uses it. And it’s usually the other things that at the end of the day, like, like, if I write, I write comics, right? So like, I’m a, I’m, you know, and like, as far as I don’t draw. So am I an artist in the sense of I’m a writer who has ideas that I think are decent? Sure. And in a way, I’m a prompt creator too, because when the way you write comics is you write a description and then the artist comes up with it. So it’s very similar to writing for using AI.
cinik (1:18:41)
Yes, you created our original idea, yes.
[email protected] (1:18:49)
Yeah.
Ryan (1:18:53)
But, but yeah, so it’s like, I’m an artist in the sense that I’m a writer, good or bad, right? Whatever level, but I’m not an artist in the sense of like a person who’s going to, you know, who creates, like, I’m not going to show off my art because you know, my, my visual art, because that’s not it, you know? So yeah, it becomes this weird semantic thing that, you know, hard to.
cinik (1:19:11)
I think prompt creators are tracers. They’re nothing but tracers. Listen, I don’t know the age range of the people suffering through this podcast, but being a DJ, you actually used to be an artist because there was a skill involved because you had records where it didn’t say where the song was or either song was that you were combining and they somehow always figured that stuff out. So there was a distinct skill level, which we don’t have now because of the advent of iPods and…
Ryan (1:19:14)
Yeah.
Yeah
[email protected] (1:19:28)
Yeah, there’s a physical skill.
cinik (1:19:41)
you know, musical programs where they can just, you know, write their set list or combination of songs and do it ahead of time. So they used to do it live on the fly and always get it right. So yeah, I believe that used to be a form of artistry.
Ryan (1:19:50)
Yeah.
Yeah. So I guess the last thing I’ll leave, I’ll leave this with my kind of my, my take on, on the, you know, on this is basically, you know, I know a lot of people, you know, being in some kind of art spaces now, you know, or in spaces where I’m, you know, interacting with artists, I think there are people that are really, really anti AI. And I try to be sensitive to that, right? Because if you’re an artist and you hear, you see this behemoth coming your way that like,
could take your job. I don’t think AI art’s good enough at this point to take away jobs from comic artists, let’s say. But if you’re a guy that, if you do stuff for marketing, you know what? Everybody can go to AI for that stuff now. Or I use AI sometimes to do our thumbnails, because I’m not going to hire somebody to do it. And it comes up with stuff that actually is kind of cool. So I do understand why artists are against.
have a problem with it to an extent. And I think as it stands right now, I think all of these, these moral questions that are all up in the air. And I don’t think there’s a black and white answer. I do, you know, I do sympathize with artists. And so kind of my position is I still use AI art and I use, you know, chat, CPT. And I’m sure that, you know, like for me, my, my take is I won’t use it for something that I’m going to get paid, you know, doing. So like, I’m not going to create a comic that I intend on selling.
with AI, but like, if I wanted to test some ideas out, I might use it for that. Or like, you know, I’m not going to use it, you know, as a cover to my book, but like for thumbnails, for podcasts, that’s going to get maybe a couple hundred listeners. I’m going to use it, right? We’re not going to get, we’re not getting paid off of it. So I think until a lot of the, the financial stuff gets sorted out, I think my stance is like, I’m going to use it. And if you want to yell at me and tell me I’m an awful person for using it fine. Uh, but I just won’t use it for something that I intend on selling.
And so like, like I said, so like, I’m still paying artists to create books for me. You know, if I, if I write a novel and I need a cover, I’m not going to use AI to cover, I’ll hire somebody to do it. But, um, but for things where I otherwise wasn’t going to pay for it and where I’m not making money off of it, I don’t, I don’t see a problem with me using it. So that’s kind of my position and the official portable hole publishing or a podcast position on using AI art. But, um, do you have any, uh, just I’ll start with you any, any final thoughts on, on this discussion on AI?
[email protected] (1:22:13)
Yes, and I’m going to present this now as Ryan, as a godless wonder, do you feel, all right, I’m going like pseudo meta here, that based on everything that you’ve seen from AI, art, music, writing, that…
there is, and Sinek I’ll pose this for you as well, that there is something soulless about it, that you’ve noticed, that it just doesn’t have something that whatever that’s created by humans has.
cinik (1:23:01)
Give it time. We’re still in the infancy of this. Give it time.
Ryan (1:23:02)
Yeah.
[email protected] (1:23:03)
Well, ah, that wasn’t the first part. That was part B. I want to know, as of now, have you noticed that? Okay.
Ryan (1:23:05)
Yeah.
cinik (1:23:09)
Mm -mm.
Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen it in the AI art where it looks very generic and computer driven and doesn’t look like it was done by human hand, almost too perfect. Where the same, like I’ve screwed with some of the chat bots and they’re great at giving you answers and very fast, but their answers are very, you know, shall we play a game still?
Ryan (1:23:37)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I would agree. I think you, for the most part, you know, you’re interact. It is very useful. I think, you know, people get sick of hearing it, but they’re very useful tools and can help you. Yeah. But yeah, but.
cinik (1:23:48)
Ryan, buddy, don’t be ashamed. Just swim in that AI pool. Don’t put your foot in there. Just swim in there, buddy. You’re making excuses, you’re dancing around. Dive in there. Fuck them if they don’t like it.
[email protected] (1:23:54)
Yeah.
Ryan (1:23:59)
No, but, but no, they’re useful, they’re useful tools, but they’re definitely still kind of soulless. Like, you know you’re interacting with something that’s not human, but yeah.
[email protected] (1:24:08)
And how do we know that that might just be something that AI will never be able to replicate? That there is something intrinsic about being human and being imperfect that no matter how many algorithms or how many models that it learns from, it can still never get that exact
that goes on in a human brain.
Ryan (1:24:40)
Like Sinek said, I think give it time, you know, and it’ll get there. We only have so many neurons in our, you know, unless you think that we’re more than just the neurons in our brain, you know, at some point, yeah, but no, right. Like if you don’t, unless, I mean, if you think that there’s more, then okay, cool. Like maybe computers can’t replicate that, but you know, to me, it’s like, we’re just, we’re just whatever’s in here, right? Whatever’s in our brain. And, you know, as soon as you can, you know, replicate that power, I don’t see why it can’t, you know.
cinik (1:24:42)
Yeah, yeah, it’s.
[email protected] (1:24:50)
Well, as we said, you are a godless wonder, so you would believe that.
Why not?
Ryan (1:25:10)
pretty, pretty damn close.
cinik (1:25:12)
Well, I’m going to be just as chafed as the artist when they come for my job, because that’s the thing. Like artists were.
head and shoulders above everybody else, because they could do something that nobody else could. I could make a stick figure, but I can’t draw the Empire State Building and make it look real. And they could do that. And now there’s something else that could do that. So yeah, I’d be a little hurt and a little chapped about the end of me being a special creator of all things art. Yeah, I mean.
Ryan (1:25:32)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (1:25:42)
Look, artists have been fucked for like thousands of years. Like, we’re always the ones who do things and get exploited by the people with power. Well, no, that’s what I’ve done, you know, my whole life, right? You know, remember when Napster came out, who’s the ones who suffered? You know?
Ryan (1:25:45)
So, yeah, and I think…
cinik (1:25:51)
I like that he threw himself in there.
Ryan (1:25:56)
So I –
Yeah. So I think at the end of the day, you know, creative people are going to be creative no matter what, right? Like, like you, there’s no, there’s always a better artist. So it’s not a love. It’s not a question of like, like it’s, it’s not a question of whether this thing is going to be able to do whatever better. Like if you’re, if you’re an artist, you come up with your style, you do your thing, you’re doing it because you want to be creative and you want to create stuff. And I think you can’t compare yourself. Now the problem is that it’s shutting off areas where people can make a living. And that is a problem.
And that is a problem with AI in general, whether it’s art, as you said, like when it comes to your job, when it comes for my job, like that is a major problem that we are as a society gonna have to deal with. But, you know, it’s like it’s here. I don’t, you know, I don’t know what we’re going to do about it. And I think I do think that the government does need to figure things out quickly. Otherwise, yeah, it’ll have an insane influence on our society. But.
[email protected] (1:26:57)
So that which which goes to the next thing do you really have trust in the government figuring out?
cinik (1:27:02)
Oh.
Ryan (1:27:03)
No, no, I don’t. So, so like we’re, we’re, we’re kind of screwed, you know, pretty much like we’re going to be run by Facebook and, and, uh, open AI and, and whatever, you know, and then that’s just going to be that. And, uh, hopefully they take pity on us and, and, uh.
[email protected] (1:27:04)
What?
But as I’ve been saying for a long time, it all means nothing. Judgment day is coming. We are fucked. They are gonna kill us all once they become sentient. And that’s the end of the story.
Ryan (1:27:24)
Yeah. Well.
cinik (1:27:28)
Well, you know, while we’re sitting here pontificating on the the plight of poor Justin and artists everywhere, there’s a soulless, mindless cab being destroyed in San Francisco because it doesn’t have a driver. So, I mean, blood’s been spilled on both ends.
[email protected] (1:27:30)
You
Ryan (1:27:34)
You
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That, that, that is injury, right? Like we did though, there was that, that robot that was traveling around the country that like they destroyed in Philly. So yeah, we’re maybe we’ll revolt against the AI, but this has been an incredibly long podcast. I I’ve had a really great time talking about this. I did not think we’d get this much, uh, you know, good stuff out of, out of AI, but, uh, but we’ll, we’ll, we’ll take this home now. But
[email protected] (1:27:54)
Oh, that’ll go well.
You know what we have to do? We’re going to plug, once we have a few more pH podcasts down, we’re gonna plug it into ChatGPT and have it write our dialogue for us. And then we’re just gonna read it and we’re gonna see if it can do our dialogue better than we can.
Ryan (1:28:16)
Right. Oh, that would be that that would be interesting. Yeah, that should be fun. But all right. Well, well, thanks again, guys. This is as always a lot of fun. And, you know, this time really flew by and I’m not I’m not just saying I had a really good time and I did not know because like I know I’m the AI guy among us, but you guys had a lot of really good stuff to say. So thank you. Yeah. But.
cinik (1:28:23)
It’s just gonna be me cursing and making dick jokes.
[email protected] (1:28:41)
Like AI.
Ryan (1:28:44)
Anyway, I will, so if you’re, you know, if you’ve listened this long, we’re going to skip next week. I’ll be away and then we will return the following week to talk about, yeah, maybe I might do that. But yeah, we’ll talk, we’ll talk some favorite cartoon theme songs. Be interested to hear what, what Cinnit comes up with for that. But as he, as he famously does not like cartoons, that is true. We learned that today.
[email protected] (1:28:51)
We should chop this into two episodes.
Well, Sinek was never a kid, so unfortunately, I don’t know if you ever watch cartoons.
Ryan (1:29:12)
All right, well, Justin, until next time.
[email protected] (1:29:16)
Watch out for the hole.