PHP #13: The Acolyte Episode 1&2 Review

The first episode of The Acolyte introduces the High Republic era, a hundred years before the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire. The show follows an investigation into an assassin targeting Jedi. The conversation methodically reviews episodes 1 and 2 of the show, highlighting the principal themes and discussing the flaws in the storytelling. The hosts criticize the lazy writing, convenient plot developments, and lack of character development. They also express frustration with the agenda-driven approach and the lack of attention to logic and consistency. The conversation covers topics such as the portrayal of the Jedi, the use of a doppelganger plot, the underwhelming fight scenes, and the questionable decisions made by the characters.

00:00 Introduction

02:30 News: Connor McGregor calls out

07:32 News: Tyson- Paul Postponed

10:06 What we’re watching

14:55 Star Wars: The Acolyte episodes 1&2 Review

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Ryan (00:30)

to the portable hole podcast. I’m Ryan George and I’m here with my good friends, Justin and cynic. How you guys doing? Yeah. So you were, you were performing somewhere. Yeah. Where were you performing today?

[email protected] (00:37)

pretty well. Had a nice little show. Yeah, yeah, I just performed pretty close here, you know, at the Ventner Cafe. It was nice. I got a nice reception. Wasn’t too many people, but everyone loved it. So they wanted me to come back in and play, but I had to come here and record with you guys. Yeah.

Ryan (00:54)

This is in AC. Now, what kind of music were you playing? Was it your country stuff? Was it original?

[email protected] (01:01)

Yeah, most of my original country -ish, whatever you want to call it, just in country.

Ryan (01:06)

Yeah, Sinek, have you heard Justin’s country music? Just search for him on Spotify. He’s got some good stuff.

cinik (01:09)

I have not.

[email protected] (01:15)

Yeah, and I have some more stuff coming out. I’m coming up with the album, Unsexy Songs by a Middle -aged White Guy. So.

cinik (01:15)

Spotify USA.

Ryan (01:17)

Okay, yeah.

Actually, you know, I had, I had my, my, like, father time is catching up with me moment. I started taking glucosamine and, that was like, when I, when I finally gave him, I was like, I have to, and, and I feel much better. Like, it helps a joint.

cinik (01:25)

aptly named.

[email protected] (01:40)

What does it do?

Ryan (01:43)

kind of what’s supposed to help with kind of joint pain or inflammation or, and, I, you know, I just have been very achy, especially after workout. So I finally, like, I was at,

[email protected] (01:54)

We’re harping back to the old Jim Witts days.

Ryan (01:56)

Yeah, yeah. Right. so yeah, I was, it was like, I need it. I need to start, I need something because my body’s aching all the time. Like, especially after workouts. So that’s it. Yeah. Exactly. It’s like, it’s just the train that is constantly moving forward and there is not much, not much we can do about that. So it’s up to try to exercise and maybe eat healthier.

[email protected] (02:03)

Yeah, that’s what happens. You’re like, ugh, it hurts.

cinik (02:06)

the not so portable middle -aged podcast.

Ryan (02:21)

But other than that, so we got a, we got a, not a ton of news today because we want to kind of get through this review of the acolyte, but a couple of interesting news stories, kind of MMA related, of course, because we become an MMA podcast somehow. But, but yeah, so Sinek, what’s, what’s, what’s going on with Conor McGregor? Like I know he called out, but I’m, I wasn’t following us too much on the situation.

cinik (02:42)

Well, I can tell you Ryan, if I was Michael Chandler who waited 18 months to get this money fight, I would be losing my fucking mind right now because we’re literally three weeks away from the fight and about two weeks ago, there was video of Connor partying it up in a club and being a cynic, I was like, oof, he’s not taking this seriously and he’s not a 20 something year old John Jones who could rebound from stuff like that. I’ve seen pictures of him just recently. He looks very unbroided and very deflated and not.

Ryan (02:47)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm.

cinik (03:11)

super cut or muscular for especially for 185 and So they were supposed Not anymore that that Roadhouse body definitely hit the road. So I’d say what it was a couple days ago They were supposed to do a big press conference to rally the fans in Ireland Dana was on his way there after the fights this past weekend and Michael Chandler was at the airport and they were told that the press conference is off

Ryan (03:15)

Yeah. Really? Wow.

[email protected] (03:16)

so he doesn’t have his roadhouse body.

Ryan (03:24)

What?

cinik (03:40)

Now the fight isn’t canceled, but the press conference is off. And then Connor proceeds to take pictures of himself out of doctor’s office, all smiling and happy. So today Dana came out with, well, you know, as far as mental war combat, he’s right up there with Ali. So you’re telling me that the only way you’re going to be able to get a advantage on this guy is that you pretend that the fight’s over. So he breaks training camp and goes home in frustration. And then in the last minute, you’re going to jump back up and say, yeah, I’m ready to fight.

Ryan (03:55)

You

cinik (04:10)

I mean, if you need to do that to win, why are you wasting our fucking time? And why are you, you know, they centered a card, a international fight week around this particular fight. And now it may not happen. It’s, I was hoping to see Connor, even though I think that he can’t beat Michael Chandler, not, Connor’s won one fight in the last five years and that was against a very washed up Donald Cerrone. You know, Chandler has been active, but he took about the last year and a half off waiting for this fight. So it’s just.

Ryan (04:13)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.

cinik (04:39)

It’s disappointing all around for everybody. We lose, Chandler definitely loses, and the UFC takes a bath. Meanwhile, Connor just keeps smiling because he doesn’t really actually need to fight.

Ryan (04:51)

Yeah.

[email protected] (04:51)

So do you think that this is just like his typical marketing ploy? Let’s make everyone think that I’m pulling out, that this is not going to happen. So then we can hype it up more and get more pay -per -views and more points.

Ryan (05:01)

I don’t think what’s gained out of that?

cinik (05:08)

I don’t think he wants to fight at the end of the day. I think that he might have went back and watched a couple Chandler fights and Michael Chandler is a straight -up savage. You know, his catch line is I’ll see you at the top because he just gets in there and he bites down on his mouthpiece and swings in every single fight. Yeah. And he can take a hit too. He’s taken some of Dustin Poirier’s best hits, some of Justin Gagey’s best hits and walked right through them. And I just don’t think Conor has the punching power even at 185 to put this guy out.

Ryan (05:10)

Yeah.

[email protected] (05:21)

is a hard fight for anyone. It’s never an easy fight against him.

cinik (05:36)

I think it’s gonna be a long night and I think it’s the same thing with what happened with Dustin. I think he ends up on the canvas. And how many more times do we rally around and pay our 80 bucks to see Connor get knocked out?

[email protected] (05:48)

I’m gonna do it, yeah. It’s like now people are just tuning in to see him get knocked out. It’s like.

Ryan (05:49)

Yeah, I mean, yeah, but that’s kind of like what, you know, it’s like the fight game has become the celebrity fight game and in Connors, you know,

For him, he’s become like he’s beyond MMA, right? He’s a celebrity. He’s one of the biggest figures in the sport. So I think people are going to pay to see him fight regardless, you know, just because he has a name, it’ll take a few more really bad beatings for that to change. And I think the UFC maybe smartly is trying to milk whatever they can out of him because I don’t think he’s going to be fighting that much longer. But yeah, it’s just I don’t understand it. I never understand like, especially for him, like, you know, we talk about like how much they need a union.

[email protected] (06:22)

absolutely.

Ryan (06:32)

and how bad the terms are for most fighters, that is not the case for him. He’s got a ton of money and is making a ton. And if you can’t commit to media obligations, that’s just insane. But I mean, also that’s UFC’s fault. They’re taking guys that shouldn’t be fighting and throwing them.

[email protected] (06:45)

There’s a part of it that just makes me think it’s Connor being Connor. Like he is a textbook narcissist. Everything has to revolve around him. He will make decisions. He will do things just so that the spotlight is on him, whether it’s, he doesn’t view it as negative or positive. It’s just anything that’s on him all the time and…

I sometimes think he does it just to do it. Like sometimes it’s calculated, sometimes it’s not. So who knows? He could have just been thinking, well, let me do this. Like one day, you know, when you’re dealing with a narcissist like that, like basically anything goes.

Ryan (07:25)

And we don’t know the amount of drugs that might, may or may not be involved and everything else. So yeah, so it sucks. So now another fight related story against celebrity fights is that the Mike Tyson and Jake Paul fights been at least postponed. Not shocked. I don’t know if this fight ever happens. You know, like.

[email protected] (07:28)

Hahaha, yeah.

Yeah, real shocked about that, yeah.

cinik (07:46)

You mean a 60 year old man is having medical problems? You know, even if you’re in superior condition like Mike Tyson, a 60 year old guy might have an ulcer that’ll flare up if you fly around or smoke too much pot.

Ryan (07:49)

Yeah, seriously. Yeah.

Heh.

[email protected] (07:56)

You would think that that Mike Tyson would want to do this fight. Like this is his final payday, right? He’s going to make a lot of money. Like I couldn’t imagine him wanting to pull out unless he was just really physically not able to do that. And even if he did, I feel like he would do whatever he could to step in that ring and get that final payday.

Ryan (08:04)

Yeah.

cinik (08:16)

But that’s the thing is Tyson doesn’t need the money. He’s deep in the marijuana game. He was one of the original growers out in Vegas.

Ryan (08:18)

Yeah.

[email protected] (08:20)

Yeah, you know, it’s yes, but if you look at his net worth, it’s not huge. And the marijuana game is really, really temperamental. Like it can, it’s like rags to riches. People have lost fortunes. People have made fortunes. It’s a tricky game. And I bet you he would love that security blanket right now. Like Jake Paul doesn’t need, like he’s got, you know, he’s got this thriving, you know.

Ryan (08:42)

I don’t know. I…

[email protected] (08:48)

YouTube business and his hands in all these different pots and all these businesses. Yes, Mike Tyson has a name, but you got to think at his age, he’s like, look, if I could snag this payday, it’ll be good for me. It’ll be very good.

Ryan (09:02)

You got to give it to them, the Paul brothers, you know, Jake Paul, for what it’s worth doing boxing and doing decently enough to compete and, and, Logan Paul’s like, you know, going to be an all time great pro wrestler, apparently from what I understand, like he’s. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

[email protected] (09:05)

absolutely.

Yeah, it’s great, very smart.

cinik (09:16)

Well, and he’s making money hand over fist with Prime as well. My problem with the Pauls are that they scam people. If you watch any of the Coffeezilla videos, Logan Paul is way deep in the content. And I’m sure none of those people got even slightly repaid from the whole CryptoZoo thing. So that’s my thing is that it’s fine that you’re an entrepreneur, but don’t do it at the…

Ryan (09:23)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

[email protected] (09:33)

Yeah, I’ll be right back.

Ryan (09:36)

No. Yeah.

[email protected] (09:39)

Yeah, nah, that’s scammers.

you know, other people’s expense.

Ryan (09:45)

Don’t screw people over.

cinik (09:46)

you know, everyday working man’s expense.

Ryan (09:49)

Yeah, absolutely. All right, so let’s get right to stuff that we’ve been watching. I saw a few good things. One was recommended by you, Sinek. So I’ll start off. Now, so Justin, did you ever have MoviePass? Okay, so

[email protected] (10:03)

very briefly.

Ryan (10:06)

was a documentary on…

[email protected] (10:07)

Pre -Cut.

Ryan (10:09)

on HBO, well, it kind of crashed for COVID. But yeah, the documentary is movie past movie crash. And you know, Cynic, you had it, right? Think like we probably, you did not. okay, got it. Okay, yeah. So, yes, I mean, I had it, I had it.

[email protected] (10:11)

they crashed after that. Yeah, yeah, everyone was doing it. Like,

cinik (10:18)

I did not, I only heard through you. I had the AMC one, I never had the actual movie pass.

Ryan (10:26)

I don’t know how early on, like once they, when they, at some point when they had dropped their prices to the ridiculous little price, I had it. And I saw so many movies, cause I mean, it was like 10 bucks a month and it worked well for a while. And yeah. And it was like, it was insane. Like how, just it took over everything and a lot of people had it. And there was just this one, this thought while, while using it, like, when is the other shoe going to drop? Like there’s gotta be hemorrhaging money. And, and this story, this documentary really goes into detail. A lot of stuff I didn’t know.

[email protected] (10:34)

Yeah.

cinik (10:36)

So you’re to blame, pretty much.

Ryan (10:56)

as far as like the owners of the, of the, you know, the original owners and they got pushed out and then kind of this, the stuff, you know, some illegal stuff. And then, you know, it was really interesting documentary about that whole thing, about the whole phenomenon around it. And I definitely recommend it, especially if you had movie pass and if you still have your movie pass debit card, apparently that’s worth something. So you might want to go check it out, but Sinek you saw it. What were your thoughts on it?

[email protected] (11:16)

Wow.

cinik (11:20)

I thought it was fantastic. And it actually, because at the end, he kind of gets the business back and revives it. I almost wanted to join just to support him. I felt bad about that. I mean, it just infuriated me because it’s the everything that’s wrong with corporate greed in this country, where they just saw it as a pinky bank and they just kind of used it for their own means and bankrupt the company, put people out of business and deprive people of a service that really could have worked if it was done correctly.

Ryan (11:27)

Yeah. Yeah, me too, exactly, yeah.

Exactly.

cinik (11:49)

And I don’t like the creator being forced out because he had the good sense to say, Hey, we’re going to run out of money if we keep doing this.

Ryan (11:55)

Yeah, exactly. Like the one sensible person and you’re like forcing them out. Just that none of it doesn’t make sense. But definitely worth watching. And it’s a great point that you make too. So Sinek, are you watching anything else?

cinik (12:07)

Yes, I’m knee deep and I meant to suggest it to you guys into clipped with that O ‘Neill, which is the story about Donald Sterling while he owned the Clippers and while his unabashed racism started leaking out all over TMZ. And yeah, it’s the first two episodes are out. It’s available on Hulu. It’s a great watch. My only nitpick was they didn’t do a great job making the are casting basketball players that actually look like the players like.

Ryan (12:16)

Okay.

[email protected] (12:16)

Yeah.

Ryan (12:34)

Okay.

cinik (12:35)

you know, Chris Paul is a pretty nondescript guy, and they couldn’t get a guy that looked remotely like Chris Paul. And that bothered me a little bit because winning time on HBO, they did a phenomenal job casting those basketball players like Badger Johnson look like Magic Johnson. So it didn’t take you out of the story. But yeah, clip look like it’s only I think there’s only six or seven episodes. And it looks like it’s definitely going to be a winner.

Ryan (12:40)

Okay.

Yeah.

Cool. Justin, you watching?

[email protected] (12:57)

Yeah, I was looking forward to seeing that as well. I listened to the 30 for 30 on that and it was really interesting and it goes way back. Right? So it’s not like, this just happened. You know, this wasn’t just, you know, a few years ago when he took over the Clippers. Like this was, it had gone way back. Like, so it’s, yeah, I’m looking forward to watching that as well. Nothing else for me right now.

Ryan (13:04)

Mm.

cinik (13:08)

Mm -hmm.

Ryan (13:21)

Yeah, have you been watching anything on TV? Yeah, yeah. And a couple of things have been watched. There’s a show speaking of podcasters called The Bedokan, which is which stars Will Forte. It’s on Netflix. And he’s basically a true crime podcaster who travels to Ireland to it’s entertaining. It’s a little a little like I think a lot of shows now it’s like maybe a little longer than it needed to be. But it’s pretty funny.

[email protected] (13:39)

Yeah.

No.

Ryan (13:50)

Good performances, definitely recommend. And I started watching the Benedict Cumberbatch movie or show on Netflix, Eric, which is like takes place in the 80s. He’s like a puppeteer on a like Sesame Street like show and his kid goes missing and only I think two or three episodes into it, but it’s pretty good. A little too much like, okay, okay. You know, like he’s he’s a drunk and we get it and it’s thrown in our face constantly. That gets a little bit annoying. But besides that, it’s so far pretty entertaining.

I’ll finish it after a couple episodes. And I’m almost finished with Manhunt. I have one episode left. It’s really good, yeah. Okay, yeah. So yeah, definitely gonna watch or finish that hopefully this weekend. Have either of you guys seen Godzilla minus one? So everyone says it’s like the best Godzilla movie ever. So it’s on Netflix. I’m gonna try to watch it this weekend and maybe next week.

cinik (14:26)

Yeah, that’s really good. The ending definitely pays off.

Ryan (14:44)

I’ll share my thoughts on it because everyone’s saying like it’s the best Godzilla movie. I think it was nominated for an Oscar. So excited about that. All right. So let’s get to our main discussion. I’m going to mention it. So the Acolyte, the newest Star Wars series, debuted this week and we all had a chance to watch it. Okay, so let’s do this because we’re going to talk lots and lots of spoilers.

[email protected] (14:57)

moment we’ve all been waiting for.

Ryan (15:14)

So let’s just, I want you to give me your quick, spoiler free, like, did you like it or not? And then we’ll go into depth. So cynics spoiler free quick, like, you know, quick overview of what you thought of the show.

cinik (15:28)

I thought it was shot very well. It almost looks like Ubisoft made a TV show. Like it looks very video game -ish in its combat and the way that the Jedi’s were portrayed. Visually I thought it was a good show. I just have some serious problems with other things.

Ryan (15:46)

Okay, how about you, Justin?

[email protected] (15:48)

It’s funny, I was thinking the exact same thing. Like it has that, it looks a little bit like a beautiful video game. It’s obviously shot well. But overall, I didn’t love it. And I’m sure we’ll get into why. Probably have some similar ideas.

Ryan (16:03)

Yeah, you know, I’m like I think we said it, I said earlier, probably a little higher than you guys. It’s definitely underwhelming. But you know, there’s still, I’m not down, I’m not completely down on it yet. So I’ll give the next couple episodes and see where it goes before saying like, okay, you know, this sucks or whatever. I feel like Andor, which ended up being, you know, a phenomenal show started slow.

so I’ll give this a little, you know, benefit of the doubt, but, now we’re going to get, we’re going to get into spoilers. So if you haven’t seen it yet and you care about spoilers, maybe pause, wait, come back. cause we’re going to talk, you know, not going to go super into depth, but definitely going to cover some things that happen, in this show is it’s going to be hard to talk about this thing without, without some spoilers. So it’s basically, so the

Yeah, so it’s based on the High Republic series, which is, it started off as books and novels and comics. It takes place about a hundred years before the fall of the empire. And it’s kind of considered like the golden era of the Jedi. And so where we start with this show is basically there’s an assassin that’s targeting Jedi and murdering them. And then we get kind of an investigation and then just, it opens into several mysteries that we get. So.

The first, as any first episode, kind of quick, hard to follow and hard to judge. We’ll try to get into that. So the very beginning of the show starts off with Carrie Anne Moss’s Indara, who’s attacked by an opponent who’s not wielding a lightsaber, which actually made for like an interesting fight scene for Star Wars, because you have a Jedi kind of doing a martial arts type fight against somebody else, which we don’t see much of. So, and then also with Carrie Anne Moss of Matrix fame, it was just kind of interesting to watch. So.

Shockingly, she’s killed right away, which I don’t think anybody had expected because she’s, you know, a big name actor who’s in this big property. So, I guess, two part question here. So first off, Cynic, I’ll ask you, what did you think of the kind of martial arts and the choreography and how it differs from what we’re used to? And then what are your thoughts on them killing off who we probably all thought was going to be one of the main characters in the show?

cinik (18:10)

Yeah, absolutely love it. I don’t know if that was a Game of Thrones thing they tried to do there, but I thought it was a huge mistake. I thought she, as an actress, works as a Jedi. Like, one of the, out of all of them on the show, she’s the most believable in the role. And I was, I know of at least two or three people that were gonna watch it specifically for her, so I had to go to work and tell them, like, if you’re gonna watch it just for her, then don’t bother. Because it’s grand opening, grand close.

Ryan (18:35)

Yeah.

cinik (18:38)

So yeah, that was super disappointing. That was a, I think a bad decision. You don’t throw a face like that out there and then do away with her in the opening act.

Ryan (18:47)

Yeah, how about you Justin? Like, what, I guess thoughts on the choreography, the fight, and then thoughts on them just kind of offing her right away.

[email protected] (18:51)

So, so often right away, it’s like that I didn’t that didn’t bother me too much. I think that the first that the fight choreography, the first one, which is supposed to be a barn burner was boring. Like it wasn’t a great fight. It was clearly a younger woman who was athletic to pull stuff off. And what’s her? I’m sorry, the name of the older actress. Like, she’s not a she. Yes, she’s.

Ryan (19:15)

Carrie and Moss or Indara.

[email protected] (19:20)

She’s older, not super athletic in this at least. And it was like, it was sort of like it’s matrix -esque, but it was a boring fight. It wasn’t an exhilarating fight between two athletic actresses. It was just sort of one who was clearly had a little something going on. The other one was doing sort of, you know, had that sort of like, sort of like I’m a master, like I can do these.

Ryan (19:42)

I think I…

[email protected] (19:47)

things, it doesn’t have to be realistic, but it was boring. It was boring and it was weird. And now remember, I’m watching it from an outsider perspective. I am not in the Star Wars world where I consume everything. To me, it was a boring fight. It just wasn’t great. And I had an issue with the ending of it. It was a neat little thing that…

Ryan (19:47)

Yeah!

Thank you.

cinik (19:59)

He he.

[email protected] (20:16)

that May did where she like threw the star at one to distract her. And this is actually a big problem that I have with the show in general and we’ll get to it. So this Jedi master falls for this trick, just like that. Like she has the power to stop an Indra star being thrown, but then falls for a trick, someone who’s a master. It’s like really, and.

more of this will come out as we get deeper into the show. But I didn’t love the first fight. I thought it was boring and the ending of it was just, meh. It was boring. I’m boring you with saying how much is boring. Ding.

Ryan (20:54)

I’m gonna have to edit the amount of times you’ve said that it’s boring. I think it was like 10 times. We’re gonna have a ding for every time you say boring now after the rest of the show. Yeah.

cinik (21:05)

Well, her fighting style was very much Jedi, that being reserved and controlled. And what made it exciting was that we had never seen someone use martial arts to fight someone that was a, you know, bona fide force user. So yeah, she was controlled and measured. Yeah. Go ahead, Ryan.

Ryan (21:16)

Yeah.

[email protected] (21:19)

I like that, but I like that. I like that.

Ryan (21:21)

Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, no, no. So I think you both bring up good points. I think you’re like, cynic. You’re completely right. I think that I liked the that that’s how a Jedi would fight without weapons, right? She doesn’t need to be athletic. She doesn’t need to be super quick with with her moves. But that but Justin brings up a good point as somebody who’s not steeped in Star Wars and doesn’t kind of understand that it can be a bit off putting.

But I do think, I think that story, so the interesting thing is that fight tells a very interesting story, right? Cause you have this stoic Jedi, they make it clear, like they don’t, they’re not going to kill, right? So she’s, she’s not going to fight to the death unless her life is threatened. So she takes her, you know, she doesn’t take it seriously. And the whole story of this fight is her not taking it seriously. Then finally saying, all right, calm down. Cause I can, I can kill you if I want to. And then the person who’s clearly undermatched, being able to, to, you know,

[email protected] (21:57)

Mm -hmm.

Ryan (22:14)

trick her and win just by that trickery. I didn’t mind it because of the kind of storytelling in the fight. I think the thing also with them killing off such a big name actor, it’s shock value, but it’s kind of shock value for the sake of being shocking. It’d be different. And this will be an issue I’ll talk about more of my critiques of the show is, we cared about her dying because she was a big name actress. If you’re a fan of The Matrix, like, wow.

She’s awesome. I can’t wait to see her as a Jedi. And then she gets killed, right? So for us, our caring was the carry on Moss, not this character in Dara. So killing her off right away is cheap. it wasn’t really earned. You know, you could have taken any actor, you could have taken me and been that Jedi master and killed me off. And it has that same effect without pissing people off. You know, it would have been better for us to believe, you know, really buy into her and care about her as a character, then killer.

[email protected] (22:44)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Any actress, yeah.

Yeah.

Ryan (23:13)

But by not deal, that’s what makes, you know, all the great deaths in Game of Thrones work is because we cared about those characters and we cared so much that when they were, it was a gut punch. And this, this was more just like shocking than anything else.

[email protected] (23:19)

Yeah.

It’s like you care about her because you’ve seen her in other things, but in this she’s not a developed character, so it’s a little weird.

Ryan (23:28)

Exactly. So, so like what, what it’s like a meta thought process. Like, my God, they killed off this main, this big name actor, not, my God, they killed off this character I care about. And that’s, that’s the bad storytelling, right? Like the fight was to be the good storytelling. The result is fine, but it was cheap. I think doing the way.

[email protected] (23:39)

Yeah.

So you didn’t have an issue with the Jedi Master being tricked so easily.

cinik (23:51)

Yeah, I did.

Ryan (23:52)

Okay, that is a fair point. I think she was tricked easily and a clear trick, right? And then there’s some other stuff that happens later on that same thing. So you’re absolutely right. I think that is an issue. It’s like, yes, it tells a good story, except that like, yeah, no reasonable person’s gonna fall for that, right? Like the, look over there. I mean, come on. It’s like, we’ve done that. We did that in elementary school. Like what the hell? So no, that’s a fair point. I do think it was way too easy.

[email protected] (24:11)

Yeah

Ryan (24:21)

and again, if you’re really, you know, if you’re really trying to go meta and figure out, you know, maybe it’s just about it. Maybe it’s a, it’s a, it’s a metaphor for the Jedi’s hubris. Maybe, you know, that that’s, that’s what it stands for. Maybe, but, but it’s still like, you could have found a better way to do that. Yeah.

[email protected] (24:34)

I thought that that might have been taken lightly.

cinik (24:39)

Well, there was a wrestling manager in the 80s named Mr. Fuji. And no matter who Mr. Fuji brought to the ring, somebody was getting some salt in their eyes. And it happened a thousand times and the good guy would always fall for it. And that was still less than this. Like it was less obvious. This was so, so on the nose that it was hard for me to look past. Like the Jedi knows that she’s going to do this. And she just…

Ryan (24:46)

Hahaha!

[email protected] (24:47)

Yeah.

Ryan (24:55)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

cinik (25:09)

You know, just stood there and let it happen.

Ryan (25:10)

Yeah, just sit there and took it. So yeah, it’s kind of a little silly. All right, so basically, in the very next scene, we get the would -be killer, who’s Amanda Steinberg’s Osha. She wakes up, she’s on a ship, and her demeanor is completely different. And I remember remarking to my wife right away, like, wow, her attitude’s completely different. And so.

there’s a noticeable change. She’s quickly apprehended by the Jedi. And then it’s immediately evident that there must be some kind of a doppelganger, you know, there. So now I’ll ask you, Justin, was that just too obvious? Like right away?

[email protected] (25:44)

Yeah.

cinik (25:44)

Yes.

[email protected] (25:49)

Yeah, I mean, clearly we knew that something was up. I already think, does she have a twin or is someone impersonating her? There was also another thing where, and I guess it was to show the powers of the crew that apprehended her where the people on the ship said, no, she’s not here. And he was like, tell me the truth. It’s like, but what was the motivations? Like, why would this people lie? Like it seemed weird, but it was.

Ryan (25:55)

Yeah.

Well, I think they established that because like they’re the, whatever they’re called, like they’re not supposed to be doing that work. I think that’s it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s it.

[email protected] (26:18)

they didn’t want them. They’re not supposed to be there. OK, it’s all right. All right. Fair enough. So, yeah, it was clear. My issue, however, was with it was with the next scene. And we’ll get to that.

Ryan (26:29)

Okay, yeah, so is that the prison break scene or the, okay, cool, okay, we’ll get that, okay. So Cynic, how about you? Was it too obvious and kind of cheap that they’re going the whole twin route?

[email protected] (26:33)

Yes.

cinik (26:40)

Well, unfortunately, I got wrapped up in the hullabaloo of the show before it came out and I found out about a week and a half ago that Disney had actually spoiled it in one of their trailers. I guess it was a subtitle that had a different name even though it was that particular character speaking or it’s supposed to be that particular. So they kind of ruined it, but it would have took me all 30 seconds to figure it out. And that’s one of my major critiques of the show is this whole doppelganger thing was just lazy.

Ryan (26:50)

Okay.

Mmm.

Yeah, I mean that’s

Yeah, no –

cinik (27:09)

And it was lazy for not only the way it was presented, but it was lazy for the fact that these two… All right, so let’s look at Amanda Steinberg, the actress. I’ve seen her in 10 or 15 interviews and her hair is always vastly different, okay, in every single interview. Like, you know, her stylist must be making a ton. And somehow these two characters that haven’t seen each other in, what, 10, 15, 20 years have the exact same hairstyle. Come on, dude.

Ryan (27:24)

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, do you think for you, is it the fact that it’s twins that’s kind of cheap or do you feel like they could have done a better job of it? Like could they have strung us along longer and been a better reveal or you just think like they could have had a better done something better than just it being twins?

cinik (27:39)

Come on.

I just think of all the antagonists in the Star Wars universe and to go with yet the Marvel thing where we have somebody that has the same exact look and powers that you have is just, it’s lazy, it’s been done. And I wish they would have done anything else because I’m going to tell you, Ryan, I hate the backlash that Star Wars is getting. I hate it. And I went into this with an open mind wanting to like it. And there are a lot of things to like, but there’s a lot of things to dislike about this property too.

Ryan (28:26)

So, okay, so before we get to the next scene, it’s very much connected to the next scene, but we’re not doing our standard review where we cover the five different topics, but there is a massive internal logic and consistency issue that happens here. Do either of you guys know what I’m talking about?

[email protected] (28:47)

Once you say it, I’ll probably be like, yeah.

Ryan (28:50)

The fact that a woman that just murdered a Jedi was allowed to be on a ship by herself just with droids transporting her. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like that’s a, that was the, that of everything in the show was the dumbest thing. Like, why would you do that? You know, like it doesn’t make sense. If she just murdered a Jedi master, she is incredibly dangerous, clearly is strong with the force. Why would you leave her on a ship piloted by a droid with other criminals?

[email protected] (28:56)

okay, yeah, that goes into the next. Yeah.

It’s, I was thinking.

It’s very simple so that they can have a break, a prison break. And then the prison break itself was ridiculous. It’s like, we’re busting out of here. Boof. Why are they waiting? It was so, and that’s all right. So that’s my thing. Everything is too easy for the characters. Everything happens. It’s like, we want to do something, we do it. There’s no struggle. It’s like, we’re busting out of here. You’re with us two seconds later. They busted out with no problems.

Ryan (29:20)

I’m thinking of something.

Yeah, well, can’t say it, so…

Yes, so tell me about it.

Yeah.

[email protected] (29:48)

Why were they waiting till then to bust out? Why didn’t they just bust out before? Cause they needed to wait for her to get on the ship so that they could bust out. It’s more sort of very strange things that are illogical. And yet I was thinking the same thing. You have these hardened mega criminals and yet it’s so convenient that it’s just manned by droids. And then they knew what they’re like, this one’s manned by droids. It’s just so easy. It’s like they didn’t have put any effort into breaking up. We’re breaking out.

And it’s like, it’s too easy. It reminds me, and Sinek, you mentioned this, it reminds me of a video game. Like the way that everything was introduced and sort of the way that the story doesn’t go into great details. Like we’re busting out, next, so that it can further the next part of the game, right? If.

cinik (30:35)

Well, that’s almost as mind boggling as if we jump ahead a little bit to the force field Jedi and you know, what happens there and she somehow runs away from everybody that she’s trying to prove that she’s innocent and then starts monkeying around with the body, messing with evidence and touching the body and I’m like, what in the living fuck are you doing? Like they suspect you of killing people and now you’re in a room alone with a dead Jedi.

Ryan (30:48)

Yeah. Yeah. We’ll get, we’ll get, we’ll get, but I mean, and not to say, and then speaking of convenience, the Jedi’s conveniently shows up. no, she, she didn’t do anything. I saw her and it’s like, come on. Yeah. So it’s just ridiculous. So, but.

[email protected] (30:52)

it’s not what it looks like.

cinik (31:05)

How did she get that far ahead of everybody?

[email protected] (31:06)

Yeah, yeah. And about that scene too, along the lines of it’s too easy, right? And May who comes in to do, she just got in there, easily was able to find her way to the Jedi. They knew that they were looking for her and like, and it’s the same concept. She just so easily got there, got out, got the poison, came back without any interference. It’s like, come on. It just.

Ryan (31:19)

Well, it’s yeah.

cinik (31:30)

And it took her 30 seconds to convince that dude to kill himself. Is that that much of a loss?

[email protected] (31:34)

It’s just too easy. We’ll get there. It’s just too easy.

Ryan (31:34)

Well, let’s get to that. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. All right. Let’s go back for a second. So I will say one thing I liked. Star Wars always does an amazing job with their droid design. And I love the cute little droid, the cute little pip droid, right? yeah, I do. I knew you were going to hate that.

cinik (31:47)

I hated that. I’m so, I’m fucking tired of the pocket droid. Either commit to having a droid or don’t. They started it with Lay and okay, she’s a little girl, but if we’re gonna have a droid, it’s not gonna be a fucking Palm Pilot. I mean, come on, dude.

[email protected] (31:47)

It was great. you like it?

Ryan (32:00)

it. I like the droid. I feel like they do a good job with it. Yeah, it is. But I like the droid. Although maybe it’s that I’m doing a D &D game and my character has its own droid. So maybe I was like, that’s like my character. But no. Okay. Anyway. Okay. So back to the back to the show. So the other annoying thing is, you know, okay, so they have the dumb escape. Somehow they managed to get out.

cinik (32:03)

It’s lazy. It’s a tool of convenience.

Ryan (32:29)

The guy that’s on, she rescues a guy that’s like on drugs. He escapes and is somehow able to escape without her. The, you know, the, right. It any new, right. Yeah, exactly. So imagine being like, imagine just beyond being high on the most cocaine you’ve ever, not even cocaine, like the most opium you’ve ever been on. And then you, you’re somehow able to get up sprint to a pod and know how to press the buttons. Yeah, that was kind of dumb. And then she crashed lands and somehow survives like that. That.

[email protected] (32:35)

knew right where the pod was, just able to run right to it after being boggled by a parasite.

Right to it. Know exactly what’s going on.

Ryan (32:58)

was also, it’s like, I mean, I know it’s star wars, but come on, man. Like, like nobody would survive that. Like, why would you do that? I was sitting to that drive you crazy. At this point, we just like, whatever.

cinik (33:06)

I’m telling you, Ryan, it’s in the writing. The writing was very lazy. It was very deliberate. It was very out of touch. It was just like, hey, wouldn’t this be cool? Let’s just write it. Consistency is out the escape pod. We’re just, you know, we’re going to throw everything to the wall and see what fits.

[email protected] (33:09)

writing was just, it sounded like a child.

Ryan (33:12)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it’s funny. It’s like you guys kind of answered my next question, but it’s basically, so after the, after the crash landing, we do go back to, we get a little bit more backstory on her. So we find out that Osha’s family died in an accident. She was taken in by master Saul who trained her until at some point she left the Jedi order and, soul and yard, Yord, the guy who stupidly left her on her own to go back, even though he was heading in the same place, they leave to apprehend her.

they, they very quickly get to the planet very where she crashed very, very quickly find her on a planet. You like fight, right. And an inhospitable planet with horrible weather where, you know, it doesn’t look like anything could live there. and they find her, she’s, you know, they chase after her a little bit. They capture her end of episode. I was going to ask you, was it, was it just all too convenient? If as if you haven’t answered that question already, but yeah, it was.

[email protected] (33:59)

Immediately, yeah. Find her on a planet, yeah.

Ryan (34:23)

It was a little bit too much. Like, you know, there’s,

You got to write better. I feel like for something like this, like that, it’s just like, you know, it’s not hard to do that. Like, you know, just give them a little bit more of an obstacle, spend a little more time figuring out like.

[email protected] (34:38)

Where, where as I often say this, where was the adult in the room that said that this script is childish? It sounds like almost like something we would write in junior high school. It was almost at that level of like, like just, just do like without any consistency, without any thought, you know, maybe it might be difficult to do this. Well, why it just, let’s just make everything convenient for the plot. Right.

No one just said, you know, this is weak writing.

Ryan (35:11)

I don’t know.

cinik (35:12)

Well, I just got done watching Into the Pandaverse, the South Park short film, and it was all about Kathleen Kennedy. And it’s basically just make her a chick and make her gay and very, very lame. And that’s kind of what they’ve done here. This all feels like a vehicle to just push somebody’s agenda along. And I guess we don’t need good writing as long as we have a host of

[email protected] (35:33)

Vocalite.

cinik (35:41)

every flavor character and they’re gay and very lame.

Ryan (35:46)

I mean, I don’t like it. It’s not hard to make good. You can do both, right? Like if you want the diversity, great. But yeah, make good characters. Yeah. Yeah. And make, you know, no, it’s a, yeah. And make, give us some compelling characters. Yeah.

[email protected] (35:51)

You can do both.

cinik (35:53)

Well, that we talk about it all the time. You say it all the time, right? As long as it’s a good story, which it’s not so far. It’s not two episodes in it is not then then we can accept the rest. But if the story falls flat, then all we have left is what you’re trying to accomplish. And what you’re trying to accomplish is you’ve basically invaded a territory that was mostly male and, you know, for the most part, heterosexual and inserted seeds of.

Ryan (36:09)

Yeah.

cinik (36:22)

well, we want to change this. And if you don’t like the fact that we want to change this and it goes against everything that you care about or you want to watch, then you’re wrong. And that’s the one thing that I was trying to avoid in all this. I want to like the story. I want to like these characters. I don’t want to get sucked into the agenda. But when you leave me with no story and nothing else to fall back on, that’s the only thing I can sit there and think is like, wow, they’re really just pushing all this on us.

Ryan (36:50)

I don’t necessarily see it quite like that. There are lines here and there maybe, but I think it’s just not good storytelling. I think what it is is that things will get amplified if you’re not.

[email protected] (37:02)

Yeah, but that’s the thing.

Ryan (37:07)

Telling a good story and then it’s easier to say okay. What’s going on? Like what is the agenda? Like are they trying to do this? Are they not you know, and then it becomes just like the story becomes something completely different instead of it being you know, this is like let’s just you know, you know, right good stuff. So yeah, it’s can be frustrating

[email protected] (37:08)

That’s it. You look at those types of things.

Well, and it goes sort of back to like with the story and that it’s like, yeah, I don’t care who the characters are or their gender or their sexual orientation or their race. I care if I care about them and getting through the first episode and through the second, I didn’t care about anyone. I didn’t have any attachment to any of the characters based on the story.

Ryan (37:31)

Sorry.

Yeah.

Well, it’s like, well, it’s funny because like you, you haven’t watched the Mandalorian, but somehow they were able to make us care with in a couple episodes about a baby puppet that doesn’t speak and hasn’t said a word of, you know, you get us to care about a human being, right?

[email protected] (37:57)

That’s it.

cinik (38:04)

Yeah, but how is it like three out of four properties we get is all the same thing. And it’s the same, we’re going to push this narrative, we’re going to push the female lead, whether you like it or not, and the stories never line up, like they’re never good. And then we get stuck with what’s left. And it’s like, I get it, Disney paid $4 billion for Star Wars. So if they wanna build a mansion and then put used furniture out in front.

and maybe park a couple broken down cars in front of it. That’s their right. But they can’t, I mean, they can’t be surprised with the reaction that the fan base has had.

Ryan (38:44)

see though the problem the fan base is the fan base reacted before seeing it it’d be different if the fit they reacted like yeah but they were they they reacted as like crap another female lead rather than like this is a boring story right yeah exactly yeah i guess so yeah you know but you know but but they’ve been they’ve also you know put out plenty of you know bad stuff with you know traditional leads too so just kind of like get your stuff right you know figure out your stories get your stuff together

cinik (38:47)

Are they wrong though?

[email protected] (38:56)

right for the wrong reasons, as you would say.

cinik (39:13)

Another thing that bothered me too was that they went out and they looked for people that were completely unfamiliar with Star Wars to lead the show, the actors. Like one of them even said, Anakin blew up the Death Star, which I don’t care. You know, that’s a slip of the tongue. He may not even meant that. But it’s like, well, if we’re going to subvert everything that the fandom wants, we don’t want the actors to kind of push back on the script and go, yeah, but as a Jedi, would I do this? Or as a Jedi, would I say that? And that just bothered me a little bit because it just feels like a further push in that direction.

Ryan (39:37)

Yeah. Yeah, no, that’s fair.

Yeah, that’s fair. All right, so let’s get back to the episode. So the episode ends, episode one ends basically with the reveal, the obvious reveal that the villain is actually Osha’s sister, May, and she seems to be acting on orders of a mysterious figure. To me, that episode is kind of underwhelming, and I think, to say the least.

and what we’ll do is we’re just going to review episodes one and two. So after we’re done with episode two, we’ll get our like final thoughts on those first two episodes. so basically episode two starts with May going after a master Tor, Torbin, who’s played by, I forget the actor’s name, but he played Tom and Baratheon wearing the funniest, fake beard I’ve ever seen in my life. I mean, that had to be a fake beard, right? That was, there’s no way that was real. and it looked terrible. and so,

He has this kind of Jedi force field, independent of the logic behind it. Did you guys think that the Jedi force field kind of was a cool effect?

cinik (40:44)

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, if you were in deep meditation, we kind of looked at that a little bit when Grogu was meditating up on that hill before Boba Fett made the big save. So yeah, I mean, I thought that was kind of cool, but the presentation of the Jedi was completely wrong. It looked ridiculous. The prosthetic eye, the scar, none of it looked real, and the beard was appalling. You know, it just, I don’t know who did the costume design for that, but it was not good.

Ryan (40:54)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that it looked pretty bad. No. So we, you guys already kind of railed on, on the logic of her jumping in there and everything. So we don’t need to go, to, to get into it, but, did it bother you guys? And maybe I missed something, but basically she, so she shows up, she tries to do some Kung Fu to get into the force field. Doesn’t work. She leaves, she gets some poison. She comes back somehow. She’s able to wake him out of his, meditative state and he,

[email protected] (41:37)

by saying a couple things, you know.

Ryan (41:38)

And he drinks the poison. So my question is, why didn’t she, like, was there any logic behind why he came out of that then and didn’t? And.

[email protected] (41:47)

Well, the guy who supplied her with the poison was very weakly was like, you have to use their weaknesses. So I guess she just knew the right things to say and play off of whatever was disturbing him. I guess based on his background story, he had committed some, you know, whatever he did that bothered him, he had been carrying it around, which is why as she was able to magically that no one else has ever done, just say the exact right words to pull him out and then.

Ryan (42:15)

Yeah.

[email protected] (42:15)

get him to kill himself basically.

Ryan (42:17)

So why would he do that? Like he’s a Jedi master. Like why would he kill himself?

cinik (42:22)

Exactly it will and one of the things that drove me crazy about that scene as well is her picking up the poison and going I know what this is. We use poison and hunting You don’t use poison and hunting because it would corrupt whatever you’re trying to kill. So no that you don’t use poison and hunting I’ve never seen a situation in you know All my years where a hunter uses poison for any reason and I’m not just talking in real life I’m talking about in any show like maybe some sort of sleep toxin or something like that or a slow but

[email protected] (42:26)

too easy.

cinik (42:52)

Not anything that would kill anybody. So, you know, that that was flawed as well. You would think that a Jedi, no matter what he did, would be number one, either leave the order or number two, come to peace with what he did, not hold like all this internal hate inside that, you know, 10 simple words and he’s willing to hit the Jim Jones opt out. But.

[email protected] (42:57)

and

You know, and the next thing that really annoyed me about that second episode, you have the guy supplying the poison. They were like, well, if you just tell us, you know, we’ll let you go.

Ryan (43:28)

Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of funny.

[email protected] (43:32)

It’s like there was no thought that this guy, well maybe he’s in on it a little bit more. He’s supplying poison to kill Jedis. Like what is, like just let him go and let’s, and then the escape was so easy. It’s just like, come on.

Ryan (43:36)

Yeah.

Yeah, like he…

Yeah. Well, we’ll get to that in a second. We’ll get to that in a second. So, so yeah. So basically, so, so Osha, Saul and crew arrived just too late. but they eventually capture May in a sting operation. and then she narrowly escapes. So, you know, then you have that scene where she can possibly, she’s got the gun pointing at her. She could stop her and then it’s seeming, she’s seemingly.

intentionally misses. So I guess Cynic, did she intentionally miss and was it annoying to see a scene that we’ve probably seen a million times in the past? Yeah.

cinik (44:18)

Well, let’s jump back to the escape first. Okay, they have her surrounded, they’re talking her down, and she uses dirt to get away. And okay, the people on the ground, maybe the dirt gets in your eyes and you can’t see, but the one person that would be able to keep her on their screen is the person in the ship above her. She’s like, no, she’s going off scanners. No, you’re the one person that would be able to see her through the dirt because, you know, they’re advanced enough that they can travel through time.

Ryan (44:26)

Yeah.

Yeah.

[email protected] (44:45)

but not, but not, yeah, avoid dirt.

cinik (44:47)

Not see past some dust.

Ryan (44:47)

One of my, that is my biggest like nitpick with the Star Wars universe is like they can travel through galaxies, but they don’t have like heat seeking scanners, right? Like they don’t have, like everything is visual. Like they don’t have scanners that can pick people up in other methods, with other methods. But yeah, that was.

[email protected] (45:02)

Just shoot a big, like you see this person, shoot a big net. Just capture them. It’s like not, you don’t even need super advanced technology. Just do anything.

Ryan (45:05)

Yeah. Yeah.

Or like during the fight, like they’re able, Saul is clearly able to, he’s extremely powerful. He’s clearly able to hold someone in place. Why doesn’t he just hold her in place? So it’s like, you know, it gets a little, it’s a little. Yeah. Yeah.

cinik (45:21)

Won’t she use dirt? She was like, mr. Fuji. It got in her eyes. It was very irritating It got everywhere like sand, you know, I mean it’s Star Wars. Why does it? Okay, it it makes sense if unless you think about it

Ryan (45:37)

Yeah, it does. All right, so we’re not doing our normal reviews, but I do have like, I kind of was thinking about, okay, when you’re talking about the first couple episodes of a series, especially something that’s brand new, you have to give it a little bit of benefit of the doubt. And then I came up with kind of like, all right, what are the things you need to do in a first episode?

[email protected] (45:54)

Mm -hmm.

Ryan (45:58)

to make it work. And so we can briefly go over these four things before we give our final review. Basically, I’ll tell you the four things and we’ll go through each one. So to me, and maybe I’m missing something, but I think a new show needs to one, establish the world you’re in. Whether it’s world building or what are things like, what are the physics like, what’s the world like? We’re somewhat familiar because it’s Star Wars, but obviously this is a different era. So you have that. It has to establish somewhat of an interesting story and also what the stakes are. So what are the stakes?

and why should we care? There should be intrigue, so we should be interested in what’s happening next. And then finally, we should care about characters and what happens to them. So one by one, let’s start with the world. Were you guys okay with the world building so far? Like, do you feel like you understand what this is about and how things work in this kind of version of Star Wars? Okay.

cinik (46:48)

Yeah, absolutely. I was, yeah, the way it was presented was very Star Wars. It was one of the things that they did right. And yeah, it made a lot of sense. I mean, I have no problem or no issue with that.

Ryan (47:00)

Yeah. How about you, Justin? Yeah. All right. So then we’ll get to, so, does it establish an interesting story? A and B does it establish stakes? What are your thoughts?

[email protected] (47:00)

The world is fine.

cinik (47:10)

Hmm Not as it’s being presented to us now it really doesn’t like you said they probably could have held the reveal a little longer through her in some sort of Darth Vader mask or a more snake eyes type Get up where we don’t know that you know where we’re looking at mirror images of the pro and antagonist That that they could have done a little bit better job with that You know maybe more of a slow burn even though I think we’re only gonna get eight episodes of this this particular show

Ryan (47:18)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, how about you, Justin? Thoughts on the story and stakes.

[email protected] (47:41)

So I don’t get the motivation. And that’s the stakes. That’s everything. Right? So like, and maybe we will, maybe we’ll find out there’s some turns and there’s this, but from someone who doesn’t know that, I’m not invested enough to care about this story as to why this person wants to kill these Jedi’s. We know they want to, but it’s just, the pull forward just isn’t that strong for me personally.

Ryan (47:52)

We will.

Yeah. Well, yeah. So I think, and part of that, I think that though, that’s part of the intrigue, right? Like they, but I think they’re not balancing that enough. So it’s kind of like, so far we’ve got kind of all intrigue and like what’s going on. Not quite enough story. And I tend to agree. I think the story is just not particularly strong. And it’s kind of just, it feels, and it feels lazy. It’s like we’ve seen this kind of a story before, you know, and,

[email protected] (48:30)

It’s not very deep. It’s not deep.

Ryan (48:37)

And yes, okay, she’s angry, but why is she angry with you? What happened? And I, and again, that’s part of the intrigue of it, but I don’t think it hooks you enough with its own story. And then same thing with the stakes. It’s like, I don’t really know what the stakes are right now and why these characters want what they want. So it’s kind of hard to, and then what you could take is the next thing. Like, do you, well, okay, well, I’m going to flip them.

[email protected] (48:38)

mention.

Ryan (49:03)

Are any of these characters interesting so far for you and do you care about any of them? Cynic?

cinik (49:08)

Master Saul was good Nord was good. I mean a few of the other characters You know, even though I hated the way the particular character looked like I’m all for a Wookiee Jedi because I’m a Star Wars fan So but I hated the shaved head top -notch thing. I thought it was stupid But you know, it doesn’t mean that the character can’t be interesting moving forward. So yeah there I mean there even even you know, man, I thought what is OSHA? Yeah, I mean they

Ryan (49:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

cinik (49:36)

you know, they seemed interesting enough to continue to watch the show if the story falls in line.

Ryan (49:42)

Yeah, how about you, Justin?

[email protected] (49:43)

Yeah, the characters are fine, right? But once again, it’s like you could eat beautiful, you know, you can give the nicest silverware and eat to eat terrible food and it doesn’t matter. So like, yeah, the characters look good. They could be fine. But when you put them in a story like that, then you’re just not.

Ryan (50:00)

Yeah.

[email protected] (50:10)

very interesting, so they could be compelling characters, I see nothing wrong with them, but as of now, very meh.

Ryan (50:14)

I think they, we’ve got, they’re very good performances. Like everybody’s good. Down the line, everyone’s good. They’re performing their characters well. There’s nobody that I’m like, that’s kind of dumb or, you know, but I think the issue more for me is just that there’s no depth to the characters. I don’t feel like they all feel one note. Everything’s on the page. It feels like there’s nothing, even for the main character who, you know, there’s supposed to be some kind of internal conflict. I just don’t quite like feel that.

[email protected] (50:19)

You have great actors, yeah.

That’s it.

Ryan (50:44)

you know, quite as much. And so I think that’s part of the issue right now is the characters seem to all be written very one dimensional, very, you know, one note. And there’s just not that complexity that we, and maybe we get that, but I think that’s part of the issue is like, you know, we don’t, I don’t care about them all that much because like they’re, they just haven’t, you know, they haven’t gotten me to buy into any of this quite yet.

cinik (51:06)

But the character depth is that they’re non -bon -air and gay. And this is the gayest form of Star Wars. This is the gayest Star Wars that I believe, what was her name? Leslie Hedlund said, and by the way, R2 -D2 is a lesbian, even though he’s a robot with absolutely no sexual organs or, you know.

Ryan (51:10)

Which The showrunner I think said hey

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, I get it. Like, I’m told you can make the gayest Star Wars just give me good stories, which that’s that’s the issue. Yeah.

cinik (51:30)

Well then, that’s it. I mean, that’s what bothers me about the whole thing is that you had an opportunity, but you chose to focus on this. Like…

Ryan (51:38)

I mean, do you feel like there’s a focus on it? I mean, there was, you know, like, besides St. Metzting her mother’s, like, do you feel like there was really a focus on anything beyond what we normally get?

cinik (51:49)

Well, I felt like a lot of the characters were intentionally like over the top non -binary or over the top potentially gay, which don’t care. Just don’t make it about that. Like I don’t want to watch queer as Star Wars. I want to watch Star Wars. And if you give me good characters in a deep story, I don’t care who they’re sleeping with. That’s never been a problem or an issue with me. Like I’m all for inclusion as long as it’s done organically. And this doesn’t feel organic for me. When you have…

Ryan (51:57)

Really? But yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah

cinik (52:18)

when you have the creator of the show telling people to sit down and shut up. This is what I’m doing with this this thing. I mean, people have the right not to watch and maybe they should, you know, rather than get mad and spout off on the internet, just don’t take part. And when the ratings are low enough, just like what happened with the just Suicide Squad kills the Justice League when things go to shit, then the studio closes down and you know, now they have to take it in a different direction. And I think that’s really what we need is we need a fresh set eyes over there. Like I’ve heard

Ryan (52:19)

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

cinik (52:47)

thousand times that Kathleen Kennedy is no longer in charge, but she’s in charge and she continues to give us this. And I mean, if that’s what Star Wars wants to give us, then it’s fine, but I don’t know how much longer I can ride on this ride if this is all that they’re going to give us.

Ryan (52:49)

Thank you.

I don’t know. I mean, she gave us the Mandalorian and Andor, so… Pallodium Papyrus gave us the Mandalorian. She greenlit the Mandalorian. She gave us Andor. So, but no, I… Point taken, yep.

cinik (53:03)

No, no, no, she didn’t give us the Mandalorian. Filoni and Fabro gave us the Mandalorian.

[email protected] (53:13)

I don’t think it’s as, I don’t think it’s as woke as cynic is making it, but I think it’s a meta woke. Like you’re, once again, when the story isn’t there, when it’s not good, you start think your mind starts going to, they’re making it like this. Cause it just, you know, it has to fit this sort of inclusion narrative, right? That’s going on. You wouldn’t be thinking about it at all if you were enjoying it. So that’s why I say it’s, it’s, you know, it’s meta woke.

Ryan (53:42)

Yeah, okay, that’s fair.

cinik (53:42)

Well, the problem is is that they make it a point to say it in every single interview. If you watch an interview with any of the stars or the showrunner slash writer director, they make it a point to this is what it is. Like those quotes that I just said came from her mouth, the head writer showrunner. And it’s just like, come on, dude. The problem is is that if, like, see, I couldn’t find an equivalent female property to do it to.

[email protected] (53:47)

that too. So yeah.

Ryan (53:55)

Okay.

Yeah, no, I read that earlier today and I was like, that’s gonna.

cinik (54:12)

But if they invaded My Little Pony or anything that was heavily portrayed female growing up and they just jammed all these straight male characters into it, chicks would be like, what the fuck? Why are they doing this? And I think that’s overall what the fandom feels. And I don’t wanna feel this way. I wanna watch a great Star Wars show. And or was great because they focused on other things.

Ryan (54:34)

Yeah.

is a two to a part issue, right? Cause for me, like I’m hyper aware of the fandom and, and the toxic part of the fandom. So, right. So you have this, you know, this very toxic part that is ready to jump on anything. And so the problem is, you know, when you, when you, when, when you go, when you’re press, when you express yourself in the press like that, it’s like adding fuel to that fire. And, and then it makes the changes in narrative. So like,

cinik (54:45)

yeah, it’s terrible.

Ryan (55:07)

independent of what they chose to put on the show by going out and being so aggressive. It’s just going to make the narrative about that. And like you said, I don’t, we don’t want it to be about that. We don’t want it to be about whatever agenda people think because it’s just like, just tell good stories. And the thing is like, if, if, if you’re, if you can kind of not be aggressive, if it’s, if you’re not as aggressive, you just do it and people like it or they don’t, and they’ll go away.

But then by adding the field of fire, it makes it, it then changes the story to be about that. And then if your story is not good, which this one so far is not that great, we’re spending half the episode talking about that and not talking about, you know, this brand new Star Wars property that we’re loving and, and, you know, want to see where these characters go. So I hope they, yeah.

cinik (55:54)

Yeah, we have what six more episodes to correct the ship and I hope at the end I’m throwing eights or nines or tens around. Like I want to like this. I want to like everything Star Wars because I don’t want to be in that toxic Star Wars fan base ship. I do. I want to be as far away from that as possible because I feel like deep down Star Wars has passed those people by and they’re no longer fans. They used to be fans and they’re just better because it’s not what it used to be. And I don’t need it to be what it used to be. Evolve. You know, I love Nine Inch Nails and

Ryan (55:57)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Pretty much, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

cinik (56:22)

They’ve evolved so much over through every single album. And some of it I love, some of it I didn’t, but I didn’t feel the need to get on the internet and angrily bash Trent Reznor because he put out an album I didn’t like. I just don’t feel the need to do that. I also don’t love the people that are supposed to be in charge of the adults in the room, as Justin would say, over there inciting the fan base, like, just deal with it, shut up, sit down. You’re making it worse.

Ryan (56:30)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So now I guess the last part of the, of these things is, is building intrigue. So do you guys, there is a lot of mystery involved. Do you think they did a good enough job of building intrigue for you to want to continue to see it? Or is the, have the negatives kind of outweighed that?

cinik (57:04)

I mean, it’s pretty, for Justin not being super familiar with Star Wars, maybe for somebody that’s not, but it’s pretty cut and paste that, hey, there’s a Sith behind all this, and he’s pushing the buttons and inciting this person to attack the Jedi and now probably her own sister. It’s not, there’s not much intrigue so far through two episodes.

Ryan (57:15)

Yeah.

So quick before Justin, for you, someone, so as, as somebody who’s a fan of like, you know, the fan of star Wars, if, if that Sith is revealed to be Darth Plagueis or like Darth Revan or something, would that excite you? I don’t, I’m just, this is just me pure, pure speculation. I’ve not read anything or heard anything. I’m just saying like, or if it was Darth –

cinik (57:40)

maybe a little. Maybe a little.

No, no, but if it was somebody of note like if it ties it into other properties, yeah, maybe maybe you get no Possibly I would leave an open mind like I am for the final six episodes I’m leaving an open mind like like you said indoor started out slow not this slow but indoor started out slow and It redeemed itself and turned out to be one of them, you know, my favorite Star Wars properties in years. So yeah possibly

Ryan (57:59)

If it’s –

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How about you, Justin? Is there nothing, Trig, to keep you going or are you just?

[email protected] (58:11)

So, I would call it manufactured intrigue. So, look, it’s all manufactured, obviously, but like the starting with the twins, and then of course, who’s behind pulling the strings and everything is sort of convenient so that we know what’s coming, right? I see it as manufactured intrigue, where everything is convenient so that we’re wondering what’s going on instead of it sort of…

Ryan (58:17)

Okay.

[email protected] (58:41)

organically happening look and I know that it’s that everything is so I’m using that term sort of loosely but that’s how I feel it’s like it’s contrived intrigue if that makes sense

Ryan (58:50)

Well, it’s, it’s like, it’s not, it’s not, yeah, no, it’s not earned. Like I think when, when it comes to storytelling as somebody who’s like dabbled in it, right. Or like, does some storytelling, right. You, you know, you’re obviously everything is your choice. I can choose to do any, you know, anything I want with my story, but you know, in order for it to work most of the time, those choices have to feel earned. And I think that’s part of the issue with all of the storytelling so far is that nothing seems earned. It’s just like written for the sake of being written. And that.

[email protected] (58:54)

Yes.

Ryan (59:19)

gets frustrating because then it’s like there’s no connective tissue. And that’s where, you know, that kind of internal logic and consistency thing for me, that’s why it’s such an important thing for when I rate because like that, if it’s not there, you just, there’s nothing to hold onto. It’s just floating pieces and you just, let’s do this, let’s do that. And then it makes for poor storytelling. So.

All right, so I’ll start with you, Justin. Give me your final thoughts and let’s say, you know, your rating for the episodes. I’m interested to hear what your ratings are because yours are always so low. So final thoughts and rating.

[email protected] (59:48)

I was, I wasn’t expecting a ton, but I was disappointed. I was expecting at least a higher quality of show. Obviously it looks great, right? Obviously it’s well crafted, right? So you have great actors and everything, the sets look nice and you know, the bits of, everything is well polished.

But the story and the writing is just, it seems amateurish to me. And I gotta give it a three so far. It’s like, I wouldn’t return if this wasn’t for the podcast, if we weren’t reviewing it, I would be like, I have no interest. I would not come back to this.

Ryan (1:00:35)

How about you, Cynic?

cinik (1:00:38)

I’m somewhere about a five. You know, I think there are things to build on. I think there are solid characters if they just don’t go ahead and just rip them out from under us because why not? You know, fuck it. You know, some of the combat looked good. Anything with lightsabers I love. Like I loved seeing some of the other different color lightsabers from, you know, I used to play Knights of the Old Republic online. So to see some of the different robes.

Excuse me, some of the different robes and lightsabers was kind of cool. You know, I’m a huge Star Wars nerd and all I want at the end of the day was a good story. So yeah, I’m about a five and hopefully it’ll redeem itself in the second and third act.

Ryan (1:01:21)

Yeah, so I’m right there with you. I probably give it about a six, although you’ve probably, like this discussion’s probably talked me down to closer to like a 5 .5. Yeah, I mean, the problem is like, there is a shell of a very interesting and intriguing story there. Even if you go with the whole twin angle, there are very good actors cast in this.

[email protected] (1:01:29)

Yeah, I know. It always does that.

Ryan (1:01:45)

It looks very good outside of some small spots here, but it looks really good. The character design is good as Star Wars always is. The alien design is really good. I like the action. I like it that it’s different from what we’re used to. And then you have this actor character, like it’s intriguing. Why is this person attacking Jedi? You know, it’s like you or I, you know, running up to like a soldier with the machine gun and being like, all right, let’s go. Like that’s crazy. Why would you do that? Why is it? What, what kind of person does that?

And then she’s killing them. So like it has these elements that make it intriguing and interesting. And I do want to know what’s going on with the sisters. I think it’s just like, there was, it just was not a complete story that we got. And then there’s so many like nitpicky things that then that sticks out and you’re not focused on like the story and what is interesting about it. So it’s like, yeah, there’s like, there was an edit that I don’t think was, you know, a couple of edits that needed to be done on these scripts.

to really tighten things up. Now, again, it’s only eight episodes. They could write the ship. Maybe we get a great reveal on who this villain is, and maybe things go in places that we didn’t expect. First episodes are always difficult. And as a big Star Wars fan, I’m going to watch it.

But, you know, I’m not as high as I was hoping. I was hoping that it was gonna be a really great thing and something brand new and different. I was hoping Justin would like it, because he’s not a big Star Wars guy. He’s like, hey, we can get it. This will be his entry. His entry into Star Wars will be the acolyte, but maybe not. So.

[email protected] (1:03:13)

Don’t you hate when that happens, when like you want to introduce some, something to someone and then like you choose the wrong thing and you’re like, great, this is what represents.

Ryan (1:03:18)

I’m sorry.

Yeah, I’m over. I’m over too with you the last couple of weeks. I tried with Ripley. I thought you’d like it. Nope. This so we’re gonna we’re gonna do as well. Speaking of next up, what’s in it? Do you have something to say?

cinik (1:03:34)

No, no, I was just, I was thinking that I had just recently turned somebody onto Deadwood and they absolutely, they just finished it and they absolutely loved it. So yeah, it’s disappointing when somebody is like, doesn’t quite get why you’re attracted to a particular show or, or, you know, like I took one of the deeper thinkers in my workplace and turned them onto baby reindeer. And it wasn’t until we had the conversation afterwards, he’s like, why the fuck did you make me watch that? And then I started bringing up, you know,

Ryan (1:03:38)

Okay.

Okay, good.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

cinik (1:04:03)

like the moral points of it. And he’s like, you know, then we engaged in the discussion. He’s like, yeah, it wasn’t as bad as I made it out to be or initially thought it was, you know, it’s a lot more deeper and complex than, than maybe I gave it credit for.

[email protected] (1:04:13)

Weird.

Ryan (1:04:18)

Well, it’s like, that’s how I feel with The Expanse. Like I, I, I’m one of, I’m a massive fan of that show and I think I’ve gotten everybody to try to watch it. And I think, and almost universally it’s like, it was good, but I just didn’t feel like continuing it.

[email protected] (1:04:31)

It was hard, you know, it was like one of those shows that I watched and I say, I know this is good, right? It’s just, I can’t, like I’m having, I can’t latch onto it. It’s like you think of a similar show like say Battlestar Galactica, that it was easier for me to dive into that world. The expanse, it was just, it was hard. I couldn’t, like I tried, I gave it the college try. I gave it a chance. It was just hard. I…

Ryan (1:04:44)

It’s –

Yeah. So.

The –

The issue with it and Anna, I witnessed it with Anna. Basically like we, she stopped and started that show several times. And it’s a slog for those first few episodes and the first season really. And then we went to Comic -Con one year and we got lucky and we got like a thing where we got to meet the cast. And because she met like everybody and they were all, you know, the whole cast are so sweet and like, it was really nice. It was kind of cool just meeting all them and they’re all really sweet. And I would go up to each person and I’d be like, Hey,

[email protected] (1:05:06)

It’s a slug.

Ryan (1:05:23)

convinced my wife to watch the show and they were like, you’re not watching the show. So we had this really cool experience. So that got her to watch it. And then once we got to about the end of that season one, she was in, but it is a bit of a slog. So, but I’ve had that issue with people is like, it’s such a great show, but it takes a while to get into it.

[email protected] (1:05:27)

Yeah.

Yeah.

cinik (1:05:40)

Yeah, but is that at the end of the day, your wife’s fault that it took a season for the show to get going? Or is it the writers fault?

Ryan (1:05:43)

No, no. I, you know what it is? It was, it was a period in time. So I think when, when the expanse started, right, it was a period of time where streaming wasn’t as big as it is now, you know, it was on sci -fi when it first came out. So you’re still doing shows week to week. There’s not as much content out. so then you can kind of live with that, right? Because it’s like, okay, it’s really well done. It kind of, it was, you know, Battlestar Galactica had just ended. So it kind of like it.

It fed that little bit of people that really loved that show and wanted something like it. It was hard sci -fi. It’s very smart. So it’s easier to kind of latch onto that and watch it weekly week and get into it. where in our day now we’re so used to like, you know, Hey, you know, I got an eight episode show. I’m going to watch an episode. And if I, if it sucks, I’m going to something else. I’m not wasting my whole weekend watching it where, you know, so I think it kind of was like on the tail end of that version of TV. I don’t know that like the, it would be done the same way. If, if you’re doing season one of that show, I think it has to be a little bit different.

[email protected] (1:06:27)

Yeah.

Ryan (1:06:39)

But yeah, so anyway, so just a quick, so next week we’re gonna do our preview of House of the Dragon. So, Cynic and I have seen it and are both in the midst of a rewatch. Justin, you’re gonna start watching it.

Cause we’re gonna do that in advance of season two coming out. And again, I’ve been talking about it for a while. We got that coming out and then we got the boys. So we got a lot of stuff to cover over the next few weeks. So that’s gonna be a lot of fun. Maybe the acolyte if it doesn’t suck, but anyway, that’s it. All of our stuff as usual is at portableholepublishing .com and Justin until next time.

[email protected] (1:07:16)

Watch out for the hole.

Takeaways

• The Acolyte is set in the High Republic era, a hundred years before the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire.
• The martial arts choreography and fight scenes in the first episode were underwhelming and lacked excitement.
• The decision to kill off a major character, played by Carrie-Anne Moss, right away was disappointing.
• The episode left a lot to be desired and didn’t live up to expectations. The storytelling in episodes 1 and 2 of the show is criticized for being lazy and lacking in logic and consistency.
• The agenda-driven approach and lack of attention to character development and plot depth are major flaws in the episodes.
• The portrayal of the Jedi and the use of a doppelganger plot are seen as underwhelming and unoriginal.
• The fight scenes and plot developments are criticized for being too convenient and lacking in tension.
• The hosts express frustration with the lack of substance and depth in the episodes. The hosts were disappointed with the story and writing of The Acolyte, finding it amateurish and lacking depth.
• The world-building and visuals were praised, but the characters felt one-dimensional and the stakes were unclear.
• The issue of forced diversity and the show’s focus on inclusivity was discussed.
• The hosts questioned whether the intrigue in the show was earned or manufactured.
• There is hope for improvement in future episodes.