In this conversation, Ryan and Justin discuss their recent experiences with travel and the solar eclipse. They also touch on the UFC 300 event and the state of the light heavyweight division. The conversation then shifts to O.J. Simpson and the New York Knicks. Finally, they mention The Rock’s controversial comments about being ‘anti-woke.’ The conversation revolves around the TV show Fallout, based on the popular video game. Finally, Ryan Shares his review of Civil War.
00:00 Introduction
09:13 UFC 300
16:59 OJ’s Dead
19:17 The Rock Anti Woke
27:28 Fallout Review
54:34 Civil War Review
Ryan (00:29)
Welcome to the portable hole podcast. I’m Ryan George and I’m here with my good friend Justin. Cynic is out for the weekend or the week, but Justin, how’s everything going?
[email protected] (00:39)
Pretty good, pretty good. Yeah, just a little tired today because I made the drive back from Nashville and I usually do it in two days, but it’s just a long drive and I’m not 23 anymore, so driving 15 or 16 hours is just not that easy.
Ryan (00:53)
Hey, okay. Speaking of along, okay, because I was gonna ask you, oh, so you may have gotten me beat. So how long was it? How long did you drive?
[email protected] (01:01)
I’d go half about halfway so It’s about seven hours a day six six between six and seven hours and you got to take a couple breaks and Gas up and whatnot. So, you know, they’re solid eight hour eight to nine hour travel days
Ryan (01:19)
So I, then maybe I do got you beat. So we were, so we went, so this is where we’re recording this about a week and change after the eclipse. Now, did you see the eclipse at all? Did you get to see anything or?
[email protected] (01:29)
Yeah, yeah. You know what? It was so cloudy, we only got little bits and pieces of it. So we saw when the clouds would just sort of pass over for a hot second, we would see it and then the clouds would cover it up. So we only got little bits and pieces of it. I saw it though.
Ryan (01:35)
Okay, yeah.
Okay, got it. So I, okay, so my brother Sean and I, we decided we wanted to go see the full eclipse, like full totality. So I booked an Airbnb a while back in, you know, so the thing is like, it’s kind of hard because when you’re making a decision on it, it’s very much weather, like as you experienced, it’s weather dependent. So you can kind of choose a location or a destination, but if the weather doesn’t hold up, you’re kind of screwed. So I picked like the Finger Lakes area, kind of upstate. So kind of…
central New York. And the idea was like, okay, we’ll stay there. Worst case, we can always drive to Pennsylvania. We could drive, you know, towards Vermont, you know, we kind of do whatever we need to do. But as things were getting closer, it was looking like the weather was not going to be good in Finger Lakes. And so we were getting a little bit nervous, like, okay, if the weather’s not good there, where are we going to go? But then everywhere I was looking at that was within driving range was not good at all. So it was like the weather was just looking really bad, basically everywhere.
[email protected] (02:44)
Sure.
Ryan (02:47)
Um, to the point where I remember I was going to like, we were going to drive out there. So Anna decided, and my wife decided like, I’m done. I’m not going, uh, you know, I’m going to stay home. Um, she had an important like meeting that next Tuesday. So, so, so Sean and I were on the phone. We were basically like, all right. So I was kind of like, okay, we could say New York and guarantee we see it, uh, partial, right. Or we could risk going. So the forecast, everyone was looking cloudy and I called Sean and I’m like, all right, what are we going to do? And we’re both kind of like, ah, we’re kind of 51%.
[email protected] (02:55)
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (03:16)
stay home, you know, not see it. So we’re like, all right, let’s just talk in an hour and we’ll make a final decision. So about to call them and just say, yeah, let’s just stay here. I was also just whatever reason not wanting to do the drive or whatever. And then I looked at the forecast again and I saw that in Vermont, like while it was cloudy all day, I guess when I read further, it was like the clouds are higher clouds. And so you should, it shouldn’t affect your viewing of the eclipse. So then I thought, okay, maybe what we’ll do.
[email protected] (03:17)
Yeah, yeah.
Sure.
Ryan (03:46)
is we’ll, we’ll drive up, you know, we’ll go up to Finger Lakes and then get up early and just drive like to Vermont, basically, like just go to Burlington.
Okay. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, so we make the decision, okay, we’re going to drive out to Vermont and, uh, you know, we’ll just figure it out. So we get up early. So we decided to drive. So I drive about six hours, not six, maybe five hours to get out to, um, to where we stayed, um, got there fairly late, but whatever. So we get up like, all right, we’re just going to, so then we decided instead of Vermont was going to go to Plattsburgh. Cause Plattsburgh is kind of like as far north and east as you can get pretty much in New York. Um, it, the good thing about Plattsburgh is it was, you know, the weather’s the same as Vermont pretty much.
[email protected] (04:00)
Yeah, here.
Hmm. Oh, yeah, I’ve been there
Ryan (04:27)
Um, it was a little bit closer and, um, you know, it’ll get, not only would get full totality, but we get like a good four minutes if we see it. So we’re just like, all right, we’re just going to get on the road. Cause I had no idea how much traffic we’re going to hit. So basically we’re in central New York and you know, so you basically were, basically we’re heading north and east. So we start going east towards kind of Albany. So everything’s good until we get to Albany. Then we hit Albany and all the traffic is coming up from the city is we meet that traffic. So.
[email protected] (04:54)
Mm -hmm.
Ryan (04:56)
What would have normally been about a four and a half hour trip took us about seven hours, but we made it to Plattsburgh just in time. And also my plan was like simple. We’re going to find the closest rest stop and we’re just going to stop there. And that’s it. Like, I don’t care. I don’t need scenery. I don’t need a beach. I don’t need anything. I just need a rest stop and some concrete to put my camera thing on. And, and we got it. We got really lucky. We, um, we, we got, got to a rest stop. It was busy, but not crazy. We were able to find parking.
[email protected] (05:15)
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (05:23)
Um, I got some amazing pictures. Uh, if you check the portable hole publishing Instagram, I got some really good pictures. Um, and it was amazing. Like it’s one of those, um, it, it is, uh, like, it’s hard to describe it unless you see it, you see it in person, like even the pictures, which are really good. And I’m really happy and happy with what I got. Like it doesn’t do justice to like the experience of seeing it. So we got really lucky. You know, we got to see the whole thing. Yeah. Got to see a portable hole, which I think I texted in the group chat.
[email protected] (05:43)
Yeah.
so you got to see a portable hole.
Ha.
Ryan (05:53)
Um, and, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s pretty crazy. Um, almost to the point where like our logo is already like an eclipse and I’m kind of like, I might play with some of my photos and, and change it out because it’s like, I got some really good shots. Um, so yeah, if you’re listening and you’re in your, you’re following us on Instagram, or if you don’t follow the portable, portable whole Instagram, uh, I got some good photos there. Um, and I put a bunch of my personal Instagram as well. Um, but so talking about driving, so I was seven hours there, the drive back.
[email protected] (05:59)
Yeah. Oh yeah. You definitely should. We definitely should.
Ryan (06:22)
which is normally four and a half hours, it took me nine hours to get back. So I was driving for 16 hours for that entire day. That was rough. It was kind of like that was me earning my eclipse, I guess, because it was a lot of driving and I was running on fumes towards the end. Because I mean, the thing with something like that is, you know, you can’t really plan it because, you know, because that was the thing is like we got a hotel one place, but we weren’t staying there. So it’s like, you know, I couldn’t get a hotel for the night ahead of time.
[email protected] (06:28)
That’s crazy.
That’s nuts. Oh yeah, that’s just, that’s brutal.
Ryan (06:52)
because I didn’t know where we were gonna be. And then at that point, like they’re all so expensive. So, you know, it was just like, all right, we’re gonna get on the road back. And, you know, it was worth it. Yeah.
[email protected] (06:57)
head back. That’s it. Well…
Yeah, well, I’m saying, so you have me about tide because I did drive to, um, once from Nashville, this was years ago, all the way up to Westchester and then back to Manhattan. So that’s about 16 hours. So, but it’s a lot easier when you’re, you know, when you’re, when you’re, when you’re 25. So then when you have the old man body, that’s like, Oh, my back.
Ryan (07:16)
Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, that’s it.
Yeah, no, it was, that was rough. Uh, you know, I was, I was re I was running on fumes. I was getting tired. My knee was hurting me by the end of it. And it was, yeah, it was rough. Like I, I would not, would not want to do that again. Um, you know, so next time it’s like, I don’t know, I’ll just, you know, yeah. Or like what we should have done is just like, I don’t know, found a bar or something and just not when I bar but found a restaurant or something and just hang out.
[email protected] (07:30)
Yeah, yeah.
That’s where those self -driving cars would really come in handy.
Ryan (07:48)
until like 10, you know, and then just then head on the road where but who knows like traffic seemed like it was it was pretty rough the whole time but but again, yeah, no, totally, totally worth it. So anyway, um, I guess we’ll get into you know, we got a few things to talk about that a couple of reviews and then I will be off to off to Guatemala coming up like ton of travels. Anyway. Alright, so here’s the first new story. So we keep talking, we talked about UFC 300 coming up and
[email protected] (07:54)
nothing you could do.
Awesome.
Nice.
Ryan (08:17)
You’re you have UFC. Yeah.
[email protected] (08:17)
Well first thing before we get into well first before we get into that I have something to that I’m going to reveal because I got to keep people in suspense that’s something that I will reveal at the end of the show so I wonder if Ryan I I think so in one way or another so I think Ryan’s wondering what it is remember
Ryan (08:30)
Okay. And this is relevant to me or listeners or everybody here? Okay. All right. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, there’s a few.
[email protected] (08:41)
But I remember back in the day, like, there was nothing I could keep a secret. If I had something that was like somewhat of a secret, Ryan wouldn’t stop pestering me until I told him what it was. It just…
Ryan (08:52)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, I’m like, I’m wondering what it is. I have a couple ideas. I’m wondering if my, we’ll see if my, my, my, uh, guesses are somewhere, somewhere near it. So we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see. Um, all right. So anyway, first story. So UFC 300, uh, did you watch it?
[email protected] (09:08)
Uh, not at, not live, but I saw some of the fights and yeah, I watched through some of it and some of the highlights and whatnot. It was good.
Ryan (09:11)
Okay.
Yeah, yes. Yeah, it seems like it was a, you know, like, I’m not, I’m not as big of it. It’s funny. Like we were both massive MMA fans, you know, 10, 15 years ago, I don’t follow it as, as closely anymore. I probably think cynic probably knows way more than me at least definitely, you know, and follows it a lot more religiously than, than, you know, than, than I do at least. And maybe you at this point, but, you know, it was a big card, some big fights. And I guess we could just talk, uh, the,
[email protected] (09:21)
Yeah, it’s.
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (09:41)
Big, you know, there was a big knockout, a couple big knockouts with Piero who’s got to be, he just looks like a monster and had his like little meme moment. And then what were your thoughts on the Justin Gachey fight? The…
[email protected] (09:44)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Well, it was funny because I had a buddy of mine had a big parlay going and he needed Gachie to win basically for him to win a lot of money. Now I know he was losing up until that part in the fight, but it would have been actually really funny had he been winning and then get knocked out, you know, with one second left. So, but you know, it was fun. Gachie and Holloway are always going to put together an entertaining fight. You know, it’s, they just, that’s just how they, how they do it. Um,
Ryan (10:03)
Oh really?
Yeah. Yeah, that was…
Yeah.
Yeah. What? Yeah.
[email protected] (10:24)
Now with Pereira, the big question is, not how good is he? We know he’s fantastic, but is it a thin time in the light heavyweight division? Do you think it’s a thin time? As compared to say some years back when you had Jones who was unstoppable, Rashad, Yoda, Shogun.
So do you think it’s a thin time?
Ryan (10:59)
Yeah, I would tend to say, you know, like, yeah, like they’re sorry. Yeah. Like I would tend to say that yes, like there isn’t, you don’t have the like.
It’s not the loaded division it was. Yeah. Like you said, when you had like Rashad and Rampage and Gustafson and Jones and all these guys that were like world beaters, you know, so it feels like, it doesn’t feel like there are world beaters in the, you know, Machida, you know, there was a, there was a period of that division in the, in the heyday where like you just had, it was, it was the best division in the sport and you had the most dynamic fighters and arguably the most skilled and best fighters.
[email protected] (11:21)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
very strong.
Ryan (11:41)
And so I think, yeah, we’re at a point now where I don’t think it’s there. So that’s, that’s going to be a little bit of like the mark against him at this point is like, yeah, he’s great, but how great is he? Like, does he beat a prime John Jones? You know, can he, can he beat, you know, yeah.
[email protected] (11:48)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, it’s also not only because, look, everyone gets better. Right. So the fighters are better today than they were 10 years ago. The question is, is that is the relative talent like how talented everyone was 10 years ago? Right. Is it that same level proportionally where, you know, everything evolves? We know how good everyone has gotten. So is the is the is the not necessarily the level, but it’s the competition. Has he had to run through?
Ryan (12:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (12:23)
all those competitions in yellow. He has some great wins. There’s no question about it, but that’s just what I’m wondering.
Ryan (12:27)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I can agree. I think it’s like that’s a challenge is like he needs he needs that big opponent, you know, he needs the big that big win or that big opponent to like, you know, really push him over the edge, at least at light heavyweight. Yeah, he could always I mean, they can always do it again. But yeah, I don’t know that anyone. Maybe who knows? I don’t know if Israel is he does he have any fights coming up?
[email protected] (12:41)
and light heavyweight, middleweight well he had, he had Israel so, which was a good, yeah, they probably will, I think they will.
I don’t know.
Ryan (12:55)
And then they announced Conor McGregor’s return. Like at this point, is it just, you can get just a cast grab, you know, him, any of his fights yet? Like, is there, you know, yeah, like I don’t know that he, his heart’s necessarily in it and, but does he need the money? I don’t know that he really needs the money. So why take these fights?
[email protected] (13:00)
It’s a cash grab. It’s definitely a cash grab.
I can’t imagine that he does, but you never know what business dealings or what things are happening in someone’s personal life. So it’s hard to believe.
Ryan (13:14)
Yeah.
Yeah. Unless the UFC is just backing, you know, at some level there’s an, you know, maybe they’re just backing up a bunch of money and he’s, you know, obviously he’s a, he’s a professional, you know, fighter, he’s trained and somebody who, you know, maybe, maybe he’s just, you know, he’s, he’s confident enough in himself that he can do it. But yeah, it seems a little weird. Like, you know, I don’t know. I thought, I feel like that ship is sailed, but again, there’s a lot of money maybe being left on the table. So, you know, kind of, I mean, obviously.
[email protected] (13:36)
It is.
Ryan (13:43)
He’s much younger and in better shape than Mike Tyson, but like, you know, same kind of thing. It’s like, maybe at some point you back up enough money and like, it’s hard, hard for him to turn it down. Um, and I’m sure he’s got pay -per -view points and all that, all that stuff. So, we’ll see. Um, you know, I, you know, I think that’s gonna be their big challenge is like, you know, they, they were at some point not too long ago, they were building a lot of mainstream kind of stars and guys that were really like, you know, becoming household names.
[email protected] (13:46)
Sure.
Oh yeah.
Ryan (14:13)
And I don’t know that it’s really, they’re doing quite that much anymore. Like there aren’t many guys that are like, you know, that are, you know, the average guy who maybe kind of, you know, loosely follows, you know, MMA would know who he is or know the names or even just people who don’t know that they just know they know the name Conor McGregor. They’re not doing that where they, they were doing that, you know, a few years back.
[email protected] (14:38)
We’ll think about this. How many fighters now are from Dagestan or other European countries? And now that’s good. We want the best talent from all over the world. So that’s a good thing. You have now there’s a lot of Asian fighters that are coming in, right? For an American audience, that’s not easy. If they’re not characters who speak the language and promoted as such.
Ryan (14:43)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (15:07)
So that could be a reason why it might be difficult for some of the American fans to know these fighters. And look, it’s a good thing overall, we want the best talent. So we want everyone participating, but from an entertainment promotional standpoint, that is a little, it is a little difficult for the UFC. They’re probably wondering how do we market a lot of these guys?
Ryan (15:15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, that’s what I was like, right? Like you, you know, if you’re, if you’re foreign, at least to be big in the U S, uh, if you then need to have some kind of other worldly talent or something that, you know, or speak in English, you know, be it from an English speaking country, right? Like, but yeah, you know, so it’s like, you’ve got to be like an Anderson Silva who’s, whose skills are so unmatched that like, you know, he didn’t have to speak a word of English and you were going to want to see him fight. Um,
[email protected] (15:45)
speak English, you know, and be charismatic in some way, you know.
Ryan (15:59)
And also just someone with that kind of charisma, you know, or like a French, what Francis and Ghana, who like, you know, again, otherworldly power, you know, and look, you know, built like a Greek God, like somebody that again, like your, your, his, his work kind of transcends the, you know, not that, not that his, his, his perfectly fine speaking English, but just like you, when you, you know, if we’re non native speakers, it becomes a little bit more of a challenge to market unless they’ve got.
[email protected] (16:19)
Yeah.
Ryan (16:26)
something behind them. You know, like Piera has got, you know, again, otherworldly power, great kickboxing talent. And maybe, you know, is somebody who’s kind of on that cusp. You know, I think I feel like a couple more big wins and he’s somebody who can be like more of a household name if he’s not already. Cause I think, you know, definitely a person like casuals obviously know who he is. And, you know, but like the random person who maybe follows, you know, watches one fight card a year may or may not know, but we’ll see.
[email protected] (16:34)
Yeah.
Ryan (16:53)
All right, so let’s go. So next thing this happened, I guess last week, OJ is dead. Any thoughts? I’ll tell you what, where I could connect it to now, but.
[email protected] (17:02)
Um, well, look, it was, if you’re of a certain age, like, uh, for, uh, like Ryan and I’s age, we just remember that that was the biggest story. And if you’re also, uh, like Ryan and I, we were annoyed when they interrupted the, the playoff game to show OJ escaping. We’re like, we don’t care about this. The Knicks are locked in like a death battle with who was it? The Pacers? Were they playing the Pacers at the time?
Ryan (17:21)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was like that year was like they played the Bulls and the Pacers and then the Rockets. So yeah, it might probably was the Pacers at that point. But yeah.
[email protected] (17:36)
I think it was the Pacers and it’s like, yeah, all right, OJ did it, we know it, it’s just he’s running away, okay, who cares, I wanna watch the Knicks, that’s what matters. So that’s what comes to mind. It was.
Ryan (17:49)
Yeah. Yeah.
That’s why it was to me, it was funny. Like that was the last time the Knicks were pretty much the last time they were relevant. Right. Yeah. You know, that’s a little bit facetious, but, but yeah, but like, but that was the last time they had a legitimate shot at winning a title. Not that they do this year necessarily, but they’re pretty good. Um, and you know, so it’s, uh, interesting, the interesting time.
[email protected] (17:59)
were relevant. Yeah, well, they made the finals a little, a few years later, but we knew they weren’t winning that year. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, pretty good.
Which actually, which is funny, sort of relative to that, I’ve been doing the fantasy baseball that Cynic got me into. And I’m not really much one for rooting for the Yankees, but they came through because they came back and won a game. They avoided getting swept and they came out big ninth inning rally where they came back and won the game. And like, they really helped me out. So like one guy got a big hit that really helped my score. And then they’re really
Ryan (18:24)
Okay. Okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (18:46)
Their closer, who is one of my pitchers, also came in and locked it down. And those points were really crucial, so I was like, yes, Yankee’s coming through for me. Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (18:49)
Yeah.
So that’s how to get you to root for the Yankees is be on your…
[email protected] (19:00)
Yeah, and my ace is Garrett Cole too and he’s injured so once he comes back that’ll be big.
Ryan (19:05)
that’s oh yeah once he comes back yeah yeah that would be yeah they seem to be doing pretty well without without their ace which you know hopefully they keep things up so um anyway so the only other story uh i had a few other things but some stuff that might save for the next week but um did you hear about the the rock cut the rocks kind of anti -woke comments yeah so so well i’ll get i’ll get i’ll talk about it because it’s like you know and i think i feel like the rocks he’s annoying like
[email protected] (19:11)
Yeah, they’re doing pretty well. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah, it’s.
Ryan (19:34)
Cause he’s like, you know, it’s like, I feel like a lot of stuff he does is for, you know, for publicity and to, you know, and like, I think he cares. It’s weird. Like for a guy who came from pro wrestling, whose whole shtick was like, he was the biggest heel. And even recently, like when he did, I don’t know if you know, you weren’t following much of WrestleMania, the WrestleMania stuff, but lead up, but like.
[email protected] (19:34)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ryan (19:54)
He initially was gonna come in and fight in the main event and then they pivoted when the fans kind of revolted. And then he went into the heel rock persona for the last couple months and he’s been great, because that’s what he is. He’s great as a heel. But then it’s annoying that everything he does is like for publicity. It’s like whether he’s giving people money or giving away a house or whatever it is, it’s like he clearly does this stuff for publicity. So anyway, and I’ll get the quote out.
[email protected] (20:01)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (20:18)
It’s like a little, it’s annoying. So he was talking about endorsing Biden and I guess he was being asked if he’s going to endorse somebody again. And he said, the endorsement I made years ago with Biden was one that I thought was the best decision at the time. He said, I thought I’m in a position where I can have some influence. I felt it was my job to then exercise my influence and share. This is who I’m going to endorse. I’m not going to do it. And then he says, I’m not going to do that. I was then the most followed man in the world and am today. And I appreciate that.
But what that caused was something that tears tears me up in my guts, which is division that got me. I didn’t realize then. And I just felt like there was a lot of unrest and I’d like things to calm down. And this was from an interview. I believe it was with a variety or at least the quote was from variety. I’m not sure. But, and that’s right. You’re right. You’re right. This Fox too. Sorry. I’m quoting from variety. And then he, and then I’ll just speak of cancel culture and then we can go into things like again, today’s cancel culture, Walt culture division, et cetera.
[email protected] (21:03)
Well, he went on Fox News as well.
Yeah.
Ryan (21:15)
That really bugs me. In the spirit of that, you either succumb to that and be what other people want you to be, or you be yourself and be real. And that might make people upset and piss you off. And that’s okay. So he’s contradicting himself. Cause in one statement he’s saying, you know, he’s not going to make an endorsement because he doesn’t want to division. And I guess he doesn’t want to deal with the consequences. And then he’s saying he doesn’t care about what cultures like make up your mind. Cause like,
The quote woke people aren’t the ones that gave him a hard time for endorsing Biden. So it’s just like, I don’t know. It’s like, so, you know, it’s like the real rock has a lot of, that was a huge stick up his ass, I think. And it’s like, come on, whatever, like be like Reacher. I don’t know if you’ve read any of the stuff, if you haven’t, I won’t get into that. I was almost going to add that as a story, but look up, look up Alan Rick, Rick, Rickson’s comments. He like, I admire that, you know, be like that guy, you know, but yeah, what were you going to say?
[email protected] (21:46)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
So it’s sort of interesting. Like his stuff wasn’t really anti -woke when it looks down. Like he wasn’t saying something like, oh, you know, there’s two genders, you know, things like that, or, you know, there’s too much. But we, yeah, but we view it as anti -woke because we, and it’s so funny that you mentioned the division because that’s, as you mentioned, that’s sort of exactly what you do. There is.
Ryan (22:23)
Yeah, yeah, that’s fair. Dei, whatever. Yeah.
[email protected] (22:41)
No, like when you say, oh, I thought it was, you know, I vote, I endorsed Biden. Um, but now I, you know, saying something like, I regret it. That’s an endorsement for Trump, right? Any way you look at it, it’s like, look personally, I don’t like Biden, right? And I don’t like those, uh, I don’t like Biden and that sort of group of corporate Democrats. I, you know, I feel they are corrupt in, you know, in various ways and I don’t feel that they really care, but.
there’s a division between that and Trump. So when you say that, whether it is or not, and he might still vote for Biden, but whether you say that or not, it’s an endorsement for Trump and it will be perceived as that. And then the Trumpers will all jump on it and say, see, see, see, the rock is supporting us now.
And the other thing is when you mention, you know, he did mention something that was sort of like, when you use the word woke, it is anti woke. That is anti woke. If you think about it, because look, we were not crazy. We know that any political party, any side can take things too far. And there are things that go too far on say the left with certain things, you know, with
what certain politicians do for certain laws, maybe the way certain funds are allocated, things like that, or things in school boards, things can go too far. And we get it. That’s just the nature of life and of politics. But using the term woke now is exclusively used by the right, by Trump or type.
types to make a point. It’s a derogatory term. So when you use the term, the woke crowd, that is in and of itself anti -woke. Because who is the woke crowd? It’s this mysterious group of people that doesn’t really exist. Yeah, we know that there are people that are, there are individuals that go way too far and stuff.
But most people are not like that. And most people that even most people that are, would identify as liberal are not crazy. They’re not like the way that woke is pictured. You know, it’s so, yeah, sorry.
Ryan (25:01)
Wha –
Yeah.
Yeah. Well, I think at this point, it’s become like lazy, you know, like it’s like the word you can use, it’s like a pejorative and a term you can use when you don’t want to have a nuanced discussion about anything. And so it’s effectively become meaningless. Like when people say it, you know, it’s just like, there’s no meaning to that. Like explain, you know, explain that and what does it mean? And so it just becomes, yeah, like this catchall term that people can just say, use for anything that they don’t like.
[email protected] (25:17)
Yes.
the catch -all.
You know.
Yes.
Ryan (25:42)
Um, and often, you know, to, to fight dealing with any consequences. And so it’s, you know, yeah. And so it becomes like, you know, and I know people, I know people on left that use it, you know, I’m more, you know, but they tend to be more centrist on the left, but, you know, obviously people on the right, but like, you know, when you’re talking about it, it’s like, like, you know, take each situation as it is and talk about it rather than just throwing out like, Oh, it’s.
it woke or, you know, cancel culture or whatever. And that’s it. Like, because yes, there are situations where it’s gone a little too far and, but generally it hasn’t. And then by just saying that and throwing that word out again, it becomes, it has, it has no meaning. Um, uh, and, and, you know, then it’s just like, for me, when I hear that, that immediately shuts me off. If someone’s talking about something and they’re like, if they don’t like kind of explain what they mean by woke pretty early on,
[email protected] (26:07)
Yeah, exactly.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Ryan (26:33)
then it’s like, all right, then you’re like, you’re just talking crap. Like, you don’t know what you’re saying. Like you’re saying woke because you have no other argument or you don’t have a nuanced view. And so then it just becomes kind of ridiculous. And so it was like the rock, you know, with, with this, it’s like, he’s kind of trying as he always does, like the, the, the, you know, I like, you know, we should just be heal rock, you know, you want to piss off, you know, Trump people piss off, you want to piss off Biden people, piss them off, like be the rock, be, be divisive, like, you know, but this kind of version of him that like needs adulation and needs people to,
[email protected] (26:39)
Yes.
Yeah.
Ryan (27:03)
you know, and felt so pained by the division. It’s kind of ridiculous. Like he just doesn’t like being criticized. And like, you know, at the end of the day, you’re going to, you know, it’s hard not to get criticized. I think if you’re in the public eye, I would think you just, you know, you deal with it and be, be your, be true to yourself. As he said in some of that statement, but yeah, this is what it is. It’s just like, it’s annoying. Um, but yeah, not
Alright, so we’re gonna get to the first of two reviews. We’ll start with what we’ve both seen and then I’ll finish up with with Civil War. So the first thing we’re talking about is Fallout. So you’ve seen you saw the first episode of Fallout, right? Okay, and I’ve seen six. So for anybody listening to this will be a little bit all over the place. Neither of us has seen the ending.
Um, and then maybe when we, when we’re back in a couple of weeks with cynic, we can all kind of get, get a, a post -mortem on it, uh, to talk about it. But, um, I guess we’ll start with, um, you know, and again, so we’ll kind of go through our, our categories and then I’ll kind of give my context from what I’ve, what I’ve seen since I’ve seen further, but just to give a brief, you know, so basically fallout series based on, um, a very popular video game, uh, which I’ve never played out. Did you play any of the fallout games? No.
[email protected] (28:16)
No, I think the video games had passed me by since, uh, from when that came out.
Ryan (28:18)
Alright, and yeah.
Yeah, so it’s basically like the show itself, when it begins, it’s in, I think it’s in the fifties and kind of an alternate reality where, where the tensions between us and the Reds, which I believe is Russians, but I don’t know, I don’t know that they say that outright. Um, but it’s, it’s, it’s higher than it was in, in our real reality, um, eventually leading to a nuclear war. Um, or at least we get bombed. I don’t know exactly if there was, if there was much of a war, but when the show starts, it’s a couple hundred years later.
And there are people, we basically are introduced to people who are living in vaults that were built underneath the surface. And they have their own society. And in the first episode, basically, we have a group that’s in a vault that is marrying off one of their own to a member of another vault. And it turns out that they’re raiders and murder and violence ensues. And then they kidnap the mother of Lucy.
who is our kind of main character, or sorry, the father of Lucy, who’s our main character. And then she embarks on a quest to find him and figure out what’s going on and who these people are that found him. And then in the middle of it, we’ve got a couple of other characters, Cooper, who’s a former actor turned into a ghoul and basically is like a standard kind of badass, you know, Western bounty hunter. And then we have Maximus, who’s kind of a wannabe knight who can’t seem to get out of his own way.
So I guess we’ll start off, I’ll start off with story for you. Like what are your thoughts so far on the story? I think after episode one, you know, a lot is up in the air, but any thoughts on kind of where things are, what’s going on with the story so far?
[email protected] (29:56)
You know, I thought it was all extremely obvious. And like you could you could look, I don’t I don’t mind when, you know, when you could predict what’s going to happen, but it just you could you just knew something was going to go wrong with this marriage. Like you knew something was funky was going to happen with this. You knew she was going to you knew she was going to set out.
Ryan (30:21)
Mm -hmm.
[email protected] (30:24)
you could just sort of sense where, you know, it just seems very, very predictable right now. So maybe things will change very, very, very predictable, you know, and then just keep along that thread of predictability moving forward. So yeah, to me it’s, yeah, and everything. And then, you know, with the ghoul, like,
Ryan (30:32)
Yeah.
Okay.
[email protected] (30:53)
You just knew what was going to happen. You knew that he was going to have some cool catch lines and then kill them. We get that some things are going to happen like that. It’s just so predictable. When you can just sense that something is going to happen, it’s just not as cool as when it hits you with something a little unexpected.
Ryan (31:00)
Yeah. So.
Yeah. I mean, okay. I think that that’s fair. It’s a fair point, but I do think episode one is predictable. But where I think, and again, obviously you have to get a little bit further into the show where I think that it works is there’s a lot of world building going on in this story, right? And that’s one of the strengths of the story to me is, is it’s built this entire world that feels real.
You know, it feels well thought out. It feels lived in. Um, and we’ll talk about the visuals too, like that, that, you know, the visuals work. Um, you know, it really feels like a real world where it’s not like, you know, there, there are bits and pieces, little details that they throw in that really make you feel like, okay, they really put a lot of work into this. And so I think part of it also, it’s a very, it’s a complicated story. There’s a lot going on, a lot of people, a lot of factions, a lot of groups to kind of figure out. And so I think.
For me, when it comes to storytelling like that, when you have so much to do, I think a lot of times it’s better to like lean on the familiar early on, you know, sorry, right? Like, so it’s like, you’re leaning on the familiar and tropes and things that you’re going, you know, you and I are going to expect because that eases us into it, right? We’re eased into the world. Cause it’s like, we’re not trying to, you know, we’re not, we’re not spending the entire time trying to learn everything new and we’re getting hit left and right by things that are unexpected. So like there’s a familiarity, which allows us to kind of.
find our way in this, in this vast world. And then as things go on, we get those little twists and turns and things start to change. So I don’t, you know, I think I, I had a little bit different view on that predictability part, just from that perspective. And I think that, you know, it allows us to ease into things further, but you look like you’re going to say something. Yeah. Yeah. And so, and I think that, you know, as far as, you know, from that perspective, like again, like I think it does a good job of kind of.
[email protected] (33:00)
No, no, no, no, no, it makes sense.
Ryan (33:10)
giving us a frame of reference for everybody. Cause I think there is a lot going on. So we kind of know, we understand who Lucy is and her faction. We understand, you know, um, Maximus and the people, you know, his people and, uh, what he wants and, and we understand a little bit of the ghoul. Yeah. I think that’s the, you know, like, and as Walton Goggins, who’s, who’s amazing in anything he’s in. Um, but it definitely, he’s definitely the one that was written the most kind of generic, you know, it’s like, he is a generic kind of it’s like Western, you know, again, bounty hunter.
[email protected] (33:38)
he’s like ed harris from uh… in western west world yet
Ryan (33:40)
Yeah, like exactly. You know, he’s got the badass lines, you know, he’s kind of cool. I think, you know, as the story goes on, I think we learn more about his character because we’re also trying to figure out. So the show starts with his character in the 1950s and this is a few hundred years later. So what what happened? Like, why is he said? I don’t know this at this point. For what I understand, it gets crazy in the last couple of episodes. But even at the point I’m at now, I don’t know. But I do think that so far it does a very good job of setting things up. And then.
[email protected] (33:52)
Yeah.
Sure. Yeah.
Ryan (34:06)
Uh, where the story goes is interesting. I think it maybe gets a little bit repetitive. I think you’ll see like, you know, we, you know, Lucy is our kind of main character and we’re following her on a mission. And I think it starts to get a little repetitive in the middle of it. It drags a little bit. Uh, but I can see where I think things are heading. And I think that that leaves me excited to see the last couple of episodes, but overall, I think the story is, you know, they’re doing a decent, a solid job with the story and kind of bringing you into that world.
Um, so what are your thoughts so far on the performances? Is there, is there a standout for you, uh, so far?
[email protected] (34:39)
You know, I’m just wondering if we’re gonna have very different views. Like I thought they were very sort of by the book and I don’t know if that’s the fault of the actors or just the way that it was written. The acting was fine. I thought that it was, yeah, it was good. I just thought that these, you know, these characters were, you know, sort of as you mentioned, the same, you know, familiar like, like,
Like Lucy, all right, so we know that, that she’s a, uh, you know, that, you know, right off the bat, that she’s a bad ass and she’s gonna, you know, we know that she’s going to venture out. We also, if you know even a little bit about the fallout, the video game. So you just knew that that was. Was coming. She was probably my favorite. I thought that as, as sometimes as the good guy lead, it’s not easy to pull off without being cheesy, but I thought that she, she did it well. She was right between, she was right between the, um,
She was sort of right between like a badass, but she also had a little bit of like a damsel in distress. So she was able to bring those two together. More badass, but she was not a perfect superhero right off the bat. So I thought that that was good. I guess the other guy’s name is Maximus, right? I didn’t really like his character. It seemed very weird and I was annoyed by it.
And the whole brotherhood thing, just in general, to pop up with this sort of warring cult, right? It’s just like, to bring that in and he, I don’t know, his character annoyed me a little bit. Now, did you notice the woke -ism during, that they included in that first episode? Is he too woke? The show’s too woke. Yeah, yeah, I know. I’m just, I’m just.
Ryan (36:07)
Mm -hmm.
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. I was like, good. You’re like, keep doing it. Like, yeah. Yeah. No, I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. But I didn’t know. I did. I noticed. I didn’t notice that. I was like, oh, good. Good on them. You know, what is funny is this world is definitely more racially diverse. You know, like in the fifties, like it was not that diverse. It’s definitely an alternate history because I was not like that.
[email protected] (36:36)
I’m just joking. I’m kidding. I’m kidding.
I’m just smiling out, yeah.
Yeah, I know. I thought the same thing. I was like…
Yeah, yeah, it’s okay.
Ryan (36:59)
But I know, you know, so definitely, but it would be good on them for doing that. Yeah. So I’m going to disagree a little bit. Like I think that, um, I like the performances. Uh, I agree and disagree. I think, so I think, um, Lucy was played by, I think Elle Purnell is, is her name. She, I thought she’s really good. So like, I liked that she’s kind of naive, right? Cause if you, if you grew up in, you know, kind of isolated without contact with like the outside world, um, she plays that naivete really well.
[email protected] (37:17)
Yeah. Yeah, she’s naive.
Ryan (37:27)
I do think, and maybe this would be more under the logic that like, yeah, she probably would have been killed pretty quickly. But it seems like somebody who she’s very smart, she’s resourceful. So like she’s naive, but she quickly starts to figure out how to interact in that world. And you see her kind of getting, as the show goes on, again, you’ll see she gets more and more annoyed, more and more angry, not angry, but like, you know, she starts to figure things out. And so I think that’s really well done with, I think they do a really good job with that with her character.
[email protected] (37:46)
Yeah, of course.
Ryan (37:54)
But they definitely play some, you know, there’s some funny moments with, you know, that kind of fish out, out of water type of, type of deal. And yeah, Maximus, I think he is annoying. Like his character is annoying. He does some stupid things. He makes a couple of dumb decisions throughout the show. But I’m hoping, you know, I think obviously when you get to the predictable thing, it’s kind of like the, you know, the kind of the guy that, you know, eventually he’s going to become a hero, you know, the nerdy guy who, you know,
[email protected] (38:17)
You know he’s gonna turn. Yeah, of course.
Ryan (38:21)
who’s weak and can’t figure things out and is screwing up and nervous and anxious and he’s gonna eventually be the guy to save the day. It looks like that’s what it’s building towards.
[email protected] (38:27)
the guy who was the cult leader, he annoyed me. People don’t act like that. It’s just so played up. Look, I get you have to suspend your disbelief a little bit, but it’s just like, when you’re going between this realism and this thing, I don’t know why that character just irked me so much the way that he spoke, but whatever, I guess it’s just me. Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (38:37)
Yeah, I mean… I don’t know. I –
I don’t know, that didn’t bother me.
Yeah.
See, I like it because I think that to me adds to this world, right? It builds this world and they, you know, they got these, you know, and I like the, um, well, yes, we’ll talk about that when we get to the audio visual, but yeah, I think her performance is good. Um, there’s, you know, uh, Maximus is good. Um, Walton Goggins is great. I just think he, he’s maybe giving, you know, I, and again, maybe we’ll see more of that. I think they’re, they go, they go more into his character as it goes on. Um, but as the ghoul, you know, yeah, it’s a little bit one note, um, you know, so far.
Uh, and then there’s some great guest appearances. Um, I might like, you don’t watch what we do in the shadows, right? Uh, Matt Berry, who’s in that is great. He’s a guy like, I, I, like you say that sometimes, but like, I could listen to him read the phone book. He’s got such a ridiculous, like great, funny voice. Um, so he plays a robot in it, um, and then shows up, you know, later on, but like, he’s awesome. And so there’s some really good kind of guest appearances throughout the show, um, that you’ll see. Uh, and so I think that’s, that, that’s also, so I think overall, I really do like most of the performances in it.
[email protected] (39:26)
No, I haven’t seen it, not yet.
Ryan (39:50)
Um, and I think they’re just layered enough and, and they’re, everybody’s kind of giving, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re clearly giving a lot to their, to their performances. And I think, you know, whether or not the writing, if the writing’s whether or not the writing’s asking for it, they’re definitely giving some layered performances. So I’m, I’m so far so far liking it. Um, all right. So next up is the feels. So any, anything so far like in this, are you feeling tension, anger, funny, anything humor, like anything so far?
[email protected] (40:04)
Yeah.
So I’m surprised, wait, the feels is before audiovisual? I guess it is. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I’m sort of indifferent to it. It’s like, all right, we’ll see where it goes, like, if it can hold my interest, but I don’t, like, I don’t really feel any attachment to any character. I’m not, like, worried about them. I’m not losing sleep over them. I’m not, like, empathizing with them.
Ryan (40:23)
Yeah, well, I mean, it doesn’t matter the order. Once we get to the two big ones are performances and story, but yeah.
[email protected] (40:49)
So it’s just the feels are indifferent right now, which I guess is the worst type of feels to have. But what about you?
Ryan (40:57)
I guess. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s interesting. You’re so lukewarm on this so far, but it’s one episode. Although I love that first episode. So I know, yeah. I mean, it’s so it’s, and this kind of goes towards audiovisual audiovisual. It’s so violent that it, some of it becomes a little bit like it’s hard to watch. I do think it does a good job of like bouncing between genres, which I guess this could also kind of fit into story, but like there are some pretty funny moments. I think there, you know, when it does so far,
[email protected] (41:01)
Heheheheh
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ryan (41:27)
When it has hit its like dramatic points, I think it does a very good job of that. So when it, when it needs to shift from being very serious to funny, it does that. And when it needs to shift back, you know, yeah, so far, I think I, you know, is it, you know, we’ll get to civil war next, which I think knocks out the part to me with that for reasons I’ll explain, but, but yeah, it’s probably, it’s not like the, you know, it hasn’t hit, you know, it’s not like Game of Thrones yet, but it’s, you know, it’s done a pretty good job so far of kind of making me feel.
you know, feel for the characters and, and, and, um, you know, play around with like when it’s supposed to be dramatic versus when it’s supposed to be funny. So, so far so good, but yeah, not as lukewarm as you, but it’s not quite quite, you know, hit the super high notes yet. Although I will say that first episode, what, you know, without giving away too much with what, why, what happens in that first episode early on is a bit of a shock. Like you just don’t expect it. And, and that’s part, just the violence of everything and that they should really show everything gets you. And I do think that.
The show, you know, and this is maybe where it does work as far as the feels is that, um, as you watch it, you’ll see the show uses it’s like, it’s both very violent visually to see, but it will do things to characters and people that you just do not expect things to happen to. And so that hits you. So I think it does, you know, it nails a lot of those moments where you just, you don’t expect, Oh, this guy’s not going to die. And Oh, Oh crap. They’re, you know, yeah. Or like this thing is not going to happen. And Oh wait, they did, they went there.
[email protected] (42:49)
So maybe the feels comes a little later.
Ryan (42:56)
So I do think the show does, you know, kind of get those moments, you know, and uses violence often to get there. So, okay, so let’s get to audio visual. So yeah, what are your thoughts so far? Like, you know, obviously there’s a lot, you know, clearly a big budget. What are your thoughts so far on how things look and how things sound?
[email protected] (43:02)
Good. Okay.
visual it hits the big budget standard. Shot well, the violence is nice and graphic, the big shots, everything is good. No issue with that, that’s exactly what you would expect. Now here’s where you really, this is the turn that I hated the music. I like those songs, I hated the use of it, of this sardonic, sarcastic even.
Ryan (43:28)
Yeah.
Hmm.
[email protected] (43:46)
method of this juxtaposition of these old songs in this new sort of way, in this dark humorous sort of way of like playing these old standards and old country songs while in this new world. I know it’s very stylized, but I thought the original music was good. That was, what was his name? Ramit Jhazi, right? So I thought he did, that’s, that he did a fine job, but the, the, um,
Ryan (43:47)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. He’s probably one of the best composers like out there at this point. Yeah. Yeah.
[email protected] (44:15)
I just thought that it was, I was, it was first off it, you know, it’s been done before, which, okay, we know everything’s been done, but it was, they went over the top with it. There was a different old song and a this and a, you know, they have to, for every part. And it had to have this ironic sense to it. And it was this dark humor and it was like, okay. And it just like, it’s like, is this really going, am I really going to have to deal with this for the whole?
Ryan (44:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
[email protected] (44:43)
duration of the show. They’re gonna annoy me with this constant juxtaposition of these old songs and this dark, sort of like, ironic dark humor. So I don’t know, I did not like that part. I wish they had found a better solution of going that route. And that’s really in the makeup of the show, where they’re like, we’re going this route, we’re going to do, and those pictures in the beginning, I know it has that, with those.
he don’t lose your head with those funny slogans and stuff like that i don’t know i don’t know why it hurts me so much but it was just like if i it’s like if i have to deal with this for the whole show it’s gonna really be hard for me to sit there but okay what do you think
Ryan (45:15)
Yeah.
Yeah, interesting.
Yeah. Oh, well, you’re going to have to deal with it for the whole show. Okay. We’ll start with the audio. I didn’t mind it. I can see where you’re coming from that it’s kind of something that it stylized and it’s been done. Like, it’s not the first time that we’ve had, like, you know, you know, the music clearly opposite what we’re seeing and in that contrast. And I, but it didn’t bother me that much. You know, you think about, okay, the world that this is in ends in the fifties, basically. So we’re not going to have any more modern music than that.
But I can understand your point that it’s like, it’s not as original as I think it thinks it is. You know, like the choice of songs is not as cute as it probably thinks it is. Which is unfortunate, not unfortunate, but I think like, you know, Ramin Zawadji or however you pronounce his name is such a good composer. And it’s done, I mean, look at what he did like Westworld I thought was amazing. Like, you know, obviously did a great job with Game of Thrones, but I think when he did introduce other songs into Westworld, you know, it was, it was.
[email protected] (46:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, he did great. He was a…
Well, I don’t know if that’s him. Oh, sorry, in Westworld, sorry. Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (46:24)
Oh, yeah, I’m saying Westworld, like the way he was able to, you know, like the black hole sun on the piano and like, you know, all the different things he was able to do in that show, I think it was incredible. And maybe it’s not quite up to that standard. I think we’re talking about that. We watched something else recently that he also composed. But yeah, I get your point. Like I can see where the, yeah, maybe he’s not, you’re right. That’s fair. Maybe he’s not making those, you’re right. You’re absolutely right about that. So.
[email protected] (46:43)
Well, he might not be the music supervisor. Like that’s, that’s a different job.
Ryan (46:52)
Yeah, I get it with those song choices, but I’m also like, yeah, I’m fine. I do like that. But going back to him, I did like his score for this. Like, I think he’s done a really good job with the score for this. I’m totally, totally enjoying it. And visually, I really like it visually, because I think it, you know, there were moments where I wasn’t sure if things were practical or CGI, which is always a good thing. Like the, the mech, you know, mech suits, the night suits, that armor looks really cool. And it was like, couldn’t tell a lot of times if it’s practical or, or, or CGI. So that’s cool.
[email protected] (46:58)
Yeah, his score was good. Yeah.
Mm -hmm. Looks great.
Ryan (47:21)
I do like the way they built out this world. Apparently, you know, they did a very good job of keeping to what the game looked like. But, you know, very rarely did I see something and think, oh, that’s very clearly CGI. So I think the visuals work really well. And obviously, like, the violence is graphic and awful and looks, you know, it’s really well done. And I think like, you know, the action scenes that we do get also are really well done. So I think so far they’ve done a really good job with a lot of the visuals. They’re really nailing a lot of the visuals.
[email protected] (47:45)
Yeah, action scenes are good.
Ryan (47:49)
So like audio visual, I think for me is really good. I’m not as bothered by the, the music as you are, but, but I can, I can say, I can get, I get that. And I feel like a, you know, there was maybe a better way to work that in, um, to not try to appear as cute, but I, you know, so I can understand that. Um, and then last we’ll do a internal logic and consistency zone. That first episode, did you notice things that again, within the world were nitpicky or made you annoyed?
[email protected] (48:13)
So, what annoyed me was sort of the way that people would act. And look, suspend your disbelief, but I just feel that it was, the way that people were such characters and the way they behaved given the circumstance, that to me was a little odd. To me, I think that just the, I just didn’t feel as if.
people would act in that way. So they made the people in the vault very weak and sheltered, which they were, I guess that makes sense, but in basically the juxtaposition of the raiders that live in war and are just so used to fighting that of course it’s going to be shooting fish in a barrel. But I just don’t…
Ryan (48:54)
Yeah.
[email protected] (49:10)
Like to me, it was weird. Like Lucy, oh, so she’s a good fighter, right? They had to throw in a little MMA in there too, right? In the beginning, like she puts them in an arm bar, like, so she’s a good fighter and everyone is aware of this, of what they live in. So you really think that people would be sort of that weak and that like just, you know, sheltered and frail. It just, it seemed, it seemed a little odd to me. Also the, you know, in the, in the brotherhood,
Ryan (49:17)
Yeah.
Yeah, well…
Yeah.
[email protected] (49:40)
I guess that was a little bit better because it was kind of like the way that people might act in a military. But then I guess that whole scene where they brought him in and they’re talking to him, it just, I don’t know, it just didn’t seem all that realistic. And look, once again, I always say it, you gotta suspend your disbelief, but it has to make sense for the world that it’s in. And it just, I just.
Ryan (50:03)
Yeah, well, that’s the whole point of this like category. Yeah. I mean, so that’s the thing. Yeah. So that’s the thing is like, that’s the whole point of this. Like, right. It’s internal logic and consistency. So we’re like within the world, does this stuff make sense? I, you know, for the most part, I didn’t run into much that, you know, really bothered me, um, so far in this, like, I think things, you know, they, they do a good job of making things kind of make sense. There’s one scene, um, and I think it’s episode six.
[email protected] (50:08)
I don’t know, I didn’t feel like that’s how people would act in it.
Yeah.
Ryan (50:33)
right, because I think I’m like halfway through episode six, there was a scene with Maximus that made me like, was like, huh, that’s weird. Um, you’ll, you’ll know it, I think when you get to it, um, like it’s like, okay, I get that you’re like, you’re naive, but that’s too naive. Like there was, there was one scene, um, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about, but it’s like, you know, okay, that’s, that’s a step above, you know, where it should be as far as him being naive, but you would, you know, and I guess maybe in that first episode, you know, the fact that the Raiders get there,
[email protected] (50:47)
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan (51:02)
You would think that there would be better protections and like the fact that they didn’t. Yeah. It’s that was a little weird to like, how did they not know? Like, how are these groups not communicating? Like right. Yeah. Cause basically like, you know, the way, yeah, the way, if you don’t watch the show, it’s like there, there are these separate vaults, like vault 33 is like the vault that we are introduced to, but then they’re vault 32 and whatever. I don’t know how many or how few, but like the fact that they’re not.
[email protected] (51:04)
That’s what I was thinking too, it’s like.
they just give handed over like there’s no checks and balances yet
Ryan (51:27)
regularly communicating and up to date was weird. So when the Raiders show up, it’s like, oh, who are you? You know, it’s like, oh, what’s going on here? That’s a little, a little weird. So I would say that’s a big thing I ran into in episode one.
[email protected] (51:27)
I know, that makes no sense.
I think there was this one part where they said, oh, I heard that something happened to the leader of 33, right? So I guess that was their little thing. It was like, oh, we thought we knew who he was. Clearly the Raiders had taken over and were pretending to be them, right? So I guess they showed that. It was a very fast glimpse of that. But yeah, you would think.
Ryan (51:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And and when you actually when you when you go when you get further into it it makes less sense actually So so I’ll be interested to see if you keep up with it. What do you think? Well, so anyway, I guess that’s that’s the next part So obviously I’ve kept up with it I’m really enjoying it and I’m kind of excited to get to finish this show Is this something you’re gonna keep watching or you you kind of you done with it after?
[email protected] (52:18)
Well, look, I think I have to do it just to follow through, but I’m going to give the so far about a three out of 10. Right. I just.
Ryan (52:26)
oof, you’re brutal with these, uh, with your scores. Uh, I would not give that low. I thought it was, it’s pretty good. So, I mean, so, you know, it’s hard to great rate. Um, at this point I would give it, I mean, a solid seven and a half and probably could get, get much higher as we go on. So, all right. So I’m going to give my kind of solo route.
[email protected] (52:29)
What about your score?
Okay. All right. Well, I’m gonna do the reveal. I’m gonna do the reveal, right? I was lying about the… I’m gonna do the reveal. I was lying about the whole thing with… I was just lying about everything. So I actually… I…
Ryan (52:48)
Oh wait, well I’m going to do my solo review. You want to do?
What?
[email protected] (53:00)
I had to make for a good discussion on this because I just didn’t want us agreeing on everything. So I had to challenge it a little bit. No, I really enjoyed the first episode of Fallout, right? I really liked the music. I liked the visuals. Yeah, Maximus still annoyed me a little bit. There was still a few consistency things and yeah, it was still a little predictable, but no, I enjoyed the whole thing very much and I’ll definitely watch it again.
Ryan (53:09)
Oh really wow
No, I don’t do any.
So you’re saying that the stuff annoyed you, but yeah. Oh, wow. That been.
[email protected] (53:30)
It didn’t really, like there was a couple little things, but I just had to, like, I just knew that we would agree on everything for the show. So I had to, like, I had to see if, like, if talking down about it, you would come over to my side and say, yeah, I could see that. And no, but you held pretty strong in your views. So, but like, it, it, it’s funny. Not as sorry what we were saying.
Ryan (53:36)
Yeah.
Ehh
No. Yeah. No, but yeah, it’s no. Yeah, no, no. Like I saw, I saw the, yeah.
Don’t worry, don’t worry, you didn’t say.
[email protected] (53:57)
I was just saying it’s funny like when you start to try to purposely find bad things It’s easy to see it and then jump to that side, but no everything I enjoyed the show. I’m definitely gonna watch it I would give it about a seven out of ten
Ryan (54:06)
Yeah. Exactly. Well, I think it’s like, it’s how you frame. Okay, good. Yeah, like it’s how you frame things because, um, if you, you know, you, all the things you brought up, none of them is necessarily wrong. It’s just a matter of how much does that bother you? And that, and that, you know, if it bothers you a lot, then that, that may, you know, color your entire view of it. So, okay. I’m glad, glad that you’re going to finish it. Cause that, that way then hopefully when I get back, um, you mean, then it can do a quick like recap of like our thoughts on how the season.
[email protected] (54:23)
Yeah.
Ryan (54:36)
Um, all right, so I’m going to
my solo review of civil war. Um, and then I’ll see if I can convince you to see it. So, um, so anyway, so civil war, uh, as its name implies, uh, is a very divisive film and has been a very divisive film, um, since it’s come out. So, uh, I think it’s definitely kind of precedent, you know, coming out like during a time where people legitimately believe we’re kind of on the precipice of a war. And depending on how the election goes, you know, I don’t think.
I’m not that kind of pessimistic about our society so far, but who knows, maybe I’m just being naive. But I think when we saw the trailer and I think with just with the state of the world as the country as it is, and then a trailer for a movie about a civil war, I think a lot of people had the expectation that this was going to be a very political film and that it was going to have its own ideology and its own statement that it’s going to make on politics.
And I think in that way, the trailer is misleading. Cause I think when I saw it and I’m, you know, I think when you saw it, like the, you know, the feeling was like, Oh, this is going to be about, about a civil war. And then we’re going to, you know, we’re going to get all this stuff about, you know, backstory on what’s going on. And, and the film really turns out to be completely like not what I expected. And I think the trailer was very misleading on that end. So, um, we’ll start with story. So I actually gave it, uh, and now I can give, you know, I’ll give my kind of attitude.
ratings for each category, but for the story, I gave it a 1 .5 out of two. So I think for me, the issue with the, so the story is, is, as I said, it’s very kind of straightforward. So instead of it being about the war and about, you know, this political situation, the story does not really give you any exposition. Like it’s almost the opposite of, of most things. Like you don’t really know why there’s a war and why things are going on. All we know really is that.
You know, the president has like disbanded the FBI and is, you know, has given himself a third term. And we know that California and Texas weirdly have banded together to secede. And we know that there’s a fight where, where people are fighting towards Washington to, to, to basically stop the president. But beyond that, we don’t know why. And I think part of that was intentional, right? Like Texas and California being together, you know, clearly opposite ends politically.
So if they’re together, like you can’t pick a side, you know, if it was Texas and Florida, we’d have an idea of the politics of this film. Or if it was New York and California, we’d have an idea. But by doing that, like, you know, it’s just, the film makes a conscious decision to say, we’re not going to talk about why this is happening or who’s right, who’s wrong. We’re just outside of like, it’s clear, like maybe the president’s overstepped his bounds, but like, that’s it. So what the film basically is, is for journalists, you know, and
[email protected] (57:02)
Yeah, I noticed that.
Ryan (57:27)
two of them photojournalists basically trying to get from point A to point B or point Z. You know, like that, that’s the story is like, we’re following them. And I think we’re seeing, you know, they’re, they’re war photographers, or at least one of them is, um, Kirsten Dunst’s character is like, is a war photographer. And, um, you know, and, and she’s somebody who’s kind of been broken down. I’ll get a little bit more into that when I get to the, the performances, but somebody who’s, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s gotta be traumatic.
Uh, being a war photographer, just the horrors that you see on a day to day basis can’t be good. And so this story really is just following these journalists as they’re trying to get from point A to point B. And so we’re not, there’s not a very layered or deep story. There’s not a lot of exposition. There’s not a lot of, um, you know, explanation about why they’re there, what they’re doing. We just know that they got to get from one point to the next and we’re following them. So in that way, like, I don’t think it’s a bad story. Um, I think there’s nothing groundbreaking about it.
Um, and, and how it unfolds is fairly straightforward, but I actually give a little bit of credit, uh, to Gareth Edwards, uh, for, for sticking to that, for just saying, you know what, this is, this is the story I’m going to tell. I don’t need to, I don’t need to share, you know, the background. We’re going to do this story. We’re going to follow them. And I, I, I appreciated that. I know a lot of people had a hard time with that, but again, like for me, I was actually, you know, totally fine with that part of the story. But again, since it’s not groundbreaking, I couldn’t give it the full two points. Um,
[email protected] (58:52)
So a quick question about that. Are there little sort of Easter egg things in the, that you see that hint at various political ideas? Like I know that the president having a third term, like, is there anything? There could be nothing. He could have said there’s absolutely nothing, didn’t even hint at it.
Ryan (58:53)
Yeah. Yeah.
Not… I mean… I… Yeah, you know, there…
There are a couple of things that like the president says and just doing the third term, but you can kind of get the idea that he’s like a Trumpian type of president, you know, without the politics. So they don’t really go at all into the politics, but you get the idea that he’s kind of probably modeled after, you know, Trump to an extent. It’s Nick Offerman, who’s great in the very, very, very limited, you know, screen time that he’s got.
But I would say that’s probably the closest thing, but otherwise it stays pretty, it pretty much stays above that for the most part. Yeah, like we really don’t get much. And I think that’s a big story coming out of this movie at this point. So performances, I’m gonna give that also a 1 .5 out of two. And again, I think, you know, and this goes part with the writing and the story too, is that I think the characters are generally fairly like,
[email protected] (59:44)
Mm -hmm.
neutral. Yeah.
Ryan (1:00:12)
one note, kind of two dimensional. Like we know that they’re dealing with trauma. We know that for a large part, like, you know, the Kirsten Dunst’s character is basically just, you know, she’s dealt with a lot of the stuff and is just holding everything in. Like she’s not, like she’s clearly, you know, dealing with, you know, found a way to kind of put things away, you know, kind of, you know, put all of her emotions and feelings into a closet. And I think she does a very good job of, of you watching that crack.
you know, and watching things, you know, watching the, all of this that she’s probably seen and dealt with and it’s hidden away and that starts to kind of boil up and find its way to the surface. And then on the flip side, someone who’s doing the opposite is, I forget the actress’s name, but Jessie, who’s like a counterpart, who’s very young, and we watch her in her first experience with this and how traumatic it is initially, and then how she kind of hardens as the story goes on. So we see kind of two characters,
who are kind of going in opposite directions. So what I would say as well, I don’t think the characters are written all that great. Oh, there’s also, there’s Wagner Mora, forget, he’s really good. He’s been in, he’s in Mr. and Mrs. Smith and he’s really good in this as well. So all these characters, and then there’s a couple others, I’m trying to look at my notes here.
There’s a bunch of good, Jesse Plymouth is in it. He’s really good for a moment. So like, there’s a lot of really good performances in it, but they’re not written all that great. So a lot of the nuance and layers that we were seeing in them, I think is largely due to the performances of the actors in it. And again, I’m not gonna go through IMDB right now or gonna take a little time because my phone’s acting up, but there are a lot of really good performances. So definitely.
For me, I liked it. I just think that, you know, they were maybe held back slightly by the writing. But otherwise, you know, again, 1 .5 on that end for me.
[email protected] (1:02:13)
Do you feel that the writing was rushed? Do you think that some, like there was someone who, someone who said, or director just said, this isn’t good enough, or do you think at some point they were like, you know what, it’s good enough, let’s just roll with it instead of rewriting and rewritin –
Ryan (1:02:29)
No, I don’t think it’s that. I think their performances are good. What they bring to the table, I think is really good and well done. It’s just that I don’t know, as far as their characters, we don’t get a lot of their backstory. We don’t get a lot of nuance. So I think for me, it’s more just that I think they brought a lot out of what I think was probably the weakest part of it was just how the characters were written.
[email protected] (1:02:38)
Yeah.
Ryan (1:02:58)
you know, just like I said, they’re just kind of one note and very kind of, you know, they don’t really feel like fully formed people. It’s kind of like they’re, they’re, this is what, yeah.
[email protected] (1:03:02)
Why do you?
Why do you think they made that decision to make the characters one or do you think that they didn’t see it as that? Like, what do you like?
Ryan (1:03:14)
I don’t know. So let’s, I’ll get to the next part. So I’m going to say, like, I’ll say this, I’ll get to the feels and maybe this is why. So the feels I’m giving it a two, because this movie is all tension. And I think that’s the strength of the movie is, you know, like I said, they’re going from point A to point Z and at points like throughout the movie and it gets a little repetitive, but you know, they get to point B and point E and point, you know, J and each at each spot they get to, it’s just a mat, just a ball of tension. And I think the movie does a,
[email protected] (1:03:16)
Yeah.
Okay.
Ryan (1:03:44)
really good job of just really pulling you into those tense moments and they each time it works, you know, it happens maybe one too many times, but, but again, each time you get to one it’s different and it works. And I think that’s where the, that’s the strength of the movie to me. So I think that, you know, maybe it’s just part of like, you know, it’s maybe it’s, I don’t know if it’s a blind spot or how, you know, his vision of the movie and I’ll get also when I get to audio visual, like maybe it’s just that.
There was so much focus put on like just making these moments feel tense and powerful. And again, the visuals and audio, like maybe that was where so much of the focus was that we got kind of a story that’s a little bit, you know, it’s pretty straightforward. Again, not bad, but not groundbreaking. And again, characters that just were, again, kind of one note written, but you know, they’re just there to like…
They’re just there to facilitate our emotions. Maybe that’s what it is. But yeah, feels I got, I gave it two, because I rarely have, I can’t think of a movie I’ve been to recently that really gave me so many tense moments and each one really worked and paid off. And then kind of connected to that then we’ll get to audio visual, which I’m also giving it two. So I think again, this is where the movie really works is in this department. So first I’ll say the audio is.
phenomenal. The way that they use sound in it. I saw an IMAX and you know, maybe that’s part of why you have to see it. But I mean, it uses sound like like it’s an assault on your senses, you know, whether you know, when we because there’s a lot this is war. And so you get a lot of, you know, their battles there. At some point, they’re just dealing with one sniper at some point, they’re dealing with your gun battles. At the third act, there’s an assault on Washington. And at each point, it’s different. But each point they use sound brilliantly. And it’s like,
and it’s an assault on your senses and it feels, it immerses you in it in a way that very few films have gotten. I think like Oppenheimer did some really cool things with sound, but outside of that, like I can’t think of anything recently that really like, you know, I was wowed by the sound design. And then connected to that, obviously the visuals, I thought the visuals were great. And again, one of the best, as far as how the war scenes were choreographed,
Um, one of the best I’ve seen in a really long time. Um, again, there’s this, uh, there’s a couple of scenes where people go gun battles that are done really well. Again, there’s one really interesting, really well done battle where it’s just like a couple, a couple of snipers, like it’s like snipers shooting back and forth with each other. And that one, they do a great job. It’s kind of funny that that particular scene, but then, um,
there’s this, there’s even, there’s other scenes where they’re, again, because you’re following these war photographers, they do an amazing job of putting you in there with them and immersing you with these photographers who are also part of it, but like disconnected because they’re not actually fighting. And they do a good job of making you feel like you’re kind of there with these photographers. But then there’s this, in the third act, this assault on Washington that’s brilliant. Like, again, one of the best, like as far as just action, like action scenes, one of the best things I’ve seen in a long time. It’s so well done.
Um, and, and weirdly for me, it like, there was a bit of me that was not liking it. Like I w I felt weird watching, seeing a movie where Washington is being attacked, like was really off putting. So again, going back to the fields, like it works on a visual point, but I was also just like, it was unnerving for me to, to watch like what they were doing. At one point, I think the, you know, like,
Lincoln Memorial, I think it’s blown up or it’s just it’s one of that something it’s just like it’s it’s brutal to watch. And I think again, they do an amazing job on that side. So like, you’re really high marks. I think for me for the for the movie, I think that was, you know, that really nails that the tension and just the audio visual part. And then the last the last rating, which is, yeah. Yeah.
[email protected] (1:07:32)
Well, I have one question about that. So now I’m already interested in seeing it. So a question that I would have had coming in is the fight scenes, the war scenes of how they would do it based on the fact that it’s a civil war, that these are not all trained soldiers. It’s like different than if you were to watch a classic war movie where…
Ryan (1:07:55)
Yeah.
[email protected] (1:08:00)
the soldiers act in a way that you would expect because these are regular people that have had what different varied levels of training. So to me that was wonder if they took that into account.
Ryan (1:08:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes, there’s certain parts. So definitely like there’s certain scenes where you’re watching people who are clearly not trained soldiers, you know, fighting. And then there are a couple of scenes where there are trained soldiers. And like the assault on Washington in particular is like, these are obviously trained soldiers. Like it’s not just a bunch of like random like militia member. I mean, some of them might be, but no, this is like when you’re watching that, it’s like, no, they got legit weapons and it’s insane. So like that is, but they do a good job of mixing things up like that. So you do get a scene where guys like wearing a Hawaiian shirt.
[email protected] (1:08:29)
Yeah.
Okay.
Ryan (1:08:42)
you know, in a gun battle. So you do get some of that too. So I think that, you know, in that way, it definitely, they mix it up a little bit there. Um, and then for me with the internal logic and consistency, uh, that one, I gave it a 1 .5, it mostly works. I think for me, there’s a couple of like nit nitpicky things. I think generally, um, the main complaint I think a lot of people are going to have is just that we don’t have enough information about what, what, what this conflict is, who’s on what side.
Um, even when I, you know, I was trying to figure out what, you know, I, I didn’t realize like there were several factions, like it wasn’t just Texas and California. And I’m trying to figure out like how, why are they, if they seceded, why are they going to Washington to kill the press? So, so I think that where it comes to the logic and consistency, even though I was fine with not being spoon fed the story, I think there were a couple of things that would have, you know, that I found online.
[email protected] (1:09:18)
Yeah.
Ryan (1:09:34)
that I don’t know were in the movie necessarily and maybe would have made things clearer. So I think maybe more of a clarity thing. And the only, the one thing I will nitpick is like, so again, they’re on the road. Basically they’re going from New York to DC. The roads were way too clear, you know, at that point. Like if you’re in this kind of dystopia where we’re at war and you know, people are, you know, living in, you know, like, like there is one point where they’re on a road that’s just got cars like all over the place, but like otherwise they just had.
perfectly clear roads to get from one point to the next and that wouldn’t happen. So that was that was a little annoying. But other than that, you know, I didn’t have much nitpicky except that like, I think we just don’t have quite enough information to like, figure things out. I think there’s, there’s one other thing without giving it away at the end the assault on Washington that like was a little weird, like, like some decisions that people made were a little strange, but but other than that, like, it really didn’t much.
[email protected] (1:10:30)
Don’t you think that if they gave you more backstory than you could find things to nitpick about, you think that might have been a conscious choice? As to why, because the more that you have them like, well, why wouldn’t they do this? Why couldn’t they solve it this way? Why wouldn’t you do this? So I think that probably the way to avoid the nitpicking is to just not have that much story or not much backstory.
Ryan (1:10:38)
Probably, yeah, could be.
Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah.
Yeah. Well, yeah, but the thing is for me, like the, the issue I was more like, why, you know, like if these two states seceded, why are they, how, why would they then use all their resources to then fight inside the other states? And then you find out, oh wait, that’s because some, you know, so again, this might’ve been brought up in the movie and I just missed it, but I just feel like a little bit more information would have helped, but I’m totally fine with not giving too much. So.
My overall score for Civil War. So for me, my overall score was, let me just double check, 8 .5, yeah. Which is right up there with what I would have given, you know, if I didn’t, what I thought it was. Like I think the movie is all tension and I like that. Like I don’t mind, you know, again, like I didn’t mind so much that like, again, it’s not the deepest story in that, you know, the character, you know, because to me it’s like, I love, I love a movie that’s tension and that just is like committed to its goal, right? And like the story was like, we’re gonna tell the story of these photographers.
And we’re, you know, I will say one little thing with the, with the logic actually, now that now I’m saying it is so I can say we have these two photographers who are like shifting. One is like super experienced dead inside and we watch her humanity come back. And then the other one, no experience, you know, youthful ignorance. And we watch her like change into like a hardened, you know, like soulless person. And she makes a choice at the end that, that really cements it, right. Which it may be a little predictable, but I was, I was fine.
Um, when you watch it, um, I will say that that change happened quick for both. So that was the only, another little nitpicky thing is you have these two people who are going the opposite directions. And to me, it was a little too fast for each one to make that change. Um, but is what it is. Like, I’m not going to kill it too much because obviously you only have two hours to tell this story. And, and, and that was the story I was going to tell. So yeah, like overall for me, like I said, 8 .5, I think.
you know, it was committed to the story it wanted to tell and, and where it, where it was going to try to swing for the fences, which was like, again, on the audio visual side and on that really just building tension and playing with that and really making you uncomfortable and making, you know, hitting you with gut punches when you had to. Um, I think it does a really good job with that. And so I, you know, I enjoyed it. And then it was also, it adds some humor in it. It’s funny. It’s really funny in moments. And then it’ll, it’ll take you to, from a point where you’re like,
almost joyful and having fun to like the lowest point you’re going to be, you know, with visuals that just echo some of the like worst tragedies in humankind. So I think it’s a movie that really swings for it and I think largely, largely connects.
[email protected] (1:13:24)
Okay, well I wanna watch it now.
Ryan (1:13:25)
So yeah, so you’re gonna see it. Okay, good, good. All right. So yeah, maybe you can see it and then you can give me your thoughts if you agree with my assessment. So anyway, yeah, so that is it. I will be out next week. And so we will be back in a couple of weeks with some more stuff. Hopefully we can talk a little bit about the final of Fallout and X -Men. Are you still watching X -Men? Okay, it’s pretty good.
[email protected] (1:13:50)
Oh yeah.
Yeah, it’s good.
Ryan (1:13:53)
So you might have to maybe do a final season review of that. But otherwise, as usual, all of our stuff is at portable hole publish, or let’s forget it, portable underscore hole for all of our stuff on social media and portable hole pub at gmail .com. If you want to get reach out to us and a portable hole publishing .com is the website. And so Justin, until next time.
[email protected] (1:14:15)
Watch out for the hole.