The first part of the conversation covers various topics such as thepersidential race, Colin Kaepernick’s comic book company, and the House of the Dragon TV series. The hosts discuss their thoughts on these subjects, including the political implications of the vice presidential candidate, the potential negative impact of AI on the creative industry, and their disappointment with the pacing and storytelling of House of the Dragon. House of the Dragon Season 2 ends with a lackluster finale, leaving viewers disappointed. The season starts strong with great character development and intriguing storylines. The standout performances include Helena, played by Fabien Frankel, who portrays an innocent and aloof character. The most impactful moment is the blood and cheese incident, which shocks viewers and sets the tone for the season. However, the season drags towards the end, lacking major events and a satisfying conclusion.
Ryan (00:30)
Welcome
the portable hole podcast. I’m here with my good friends, good friends. I’m here with my good friends, Cynic and Ig. Justin is out again. Not sure where he is, but hopefully he’ll be back at some point soon. So how are you guys doing?
Ig (00:44)
Doing well, doing fine, enjoying the summer. Like not doing as much in it as I should or would like to, but still enjoying it. So I’m barbecuing and being outside.
Ryan (00:58)
Yeah, it’s been a very, I think we talked about last week, it’s been a hot summer. And now it’s been just out in the city, it’s just been raining all week this week. It’s just been hot, gross and raining, but I’ll still take it over the cold. So anyway, we’ve got a bunch of stuff to talk about, so we’ll jump right into it. we’ve got some news, and I guess we’ll start off with, like,
Ig (01:02)
Yes.
sticky.
Ryan (01:22)
with election stuff. keep saying we don’t like to talk politics, but I’m going to just stop saying that because like, it’s just such a big thing in the news that, you know, stuff, there’s something interesting it seems every week, especially with this cycle. But we just, we just found out that our vice presidential candidate is your own governor, Ig. So, so what, what, what, I guess you’re a fan.
Ig (01:42)
Yeah, Governor Walls, he’s gotten stuff done. He’s been a very productive governor here for Minnesota. He’s done a lot of things and I mean, all he needed was the slimmest of majorities and he got like two years in a row, a bunch of stuff passed. And it’s all like for the people things. Like he got universal for the whole state, boy, girl, everybody. If you go to a public school, free breakfast, free lunch, everybody, no filling out paperwork.
None of that stuff, no like having to expose your family’s finances or anything. Free food for kids, you know, and because a hungry kid is a kid that’s not gonna spend much time learning, let’s go ahead and give him some food. You know, nobody’s gonna be, like I remember a few years ago hearing stories of like lunch ladies coming out and taking food away from kids and throwing it in the garbage and things like that. Yeah, that didn’t happen. He got a statewide sick time.
Ryan (02:33)
Yeah, that’s crazy.
Ig (02:40)
mandate put in. like you earn sick time. If you have a job, you earn sick time. There are so many jobs here, especially like lower paying jobs and stuff like that. Like you don’t get sick time. So if you don’t go to work, you don’t get paid, you know, and no matter how sick you are and anything else, like it was just one of those things where it’s now you can earn, I think up to 48 hours every year and you can bank 80 hours of sick time. like if you’re just somebody doesn’t
call in sick, but then all of a sudden you have something happen. At least you can get paid for some of it. I mean, he’s just, he’s, he’s a guy that did things for the people. mean, he’s not a bad speaker. He did, does really good things. I mean, he’s a, he’s a former military member. made it to, I think command sergeant major. E9, you know, top, top of the enlisted ranks in the Minnesota national guard. He’s done it all. And he was a school teacher.
And I think I read something that he’s the first vice presidential candidate that didn’t go to law school.
Ryan (03:43)
Yeah, that’s crazy. That is really, yeah. No, I mean, yeah, no, it’s interesting. It’s like, he’s somebody, I mean, I’ve heard of him to an extent, but really was not very much aware of him or his record. But in the, you know, has become like the star of the Democratic party. And it’s just crazy how this cycle has changed.
Ig (03:46)
But he has got a master’s degree, so it’s not like he’s not educated.
Well, and anybody that watches this, just let me give you a quick clue, right? He said the Republican Party was weird. In Minnesotan, that’s the same as Southern, bless your heart, right? If Minnesotans goes, yeah, they’re weird. That means they’re full out batshit crazy.
Ryan (04:14)
Okay
Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well, he, I mean, he, yeah, he, like, he coined that and then he’s, you know, his speech yesterday was, was great. He’s been, you know, he’s definitely energized people. So, yeah, I mean, I’m incredibly impressed and, would, would not have thought, you know, especially with who they were talking about was going to be, think initially when she talked about, yeah, the Shapiro there was, Bashir. And there was, you there was even talk of Buttigieg, but all of sudden she went with the guy that I think.
Ig (04:38)
Yeah, Shapiro and the Kentucky governor.
Ryan (04:49)
Progressives really wanted and so it’s interesting.
Ig (04:51)
And he’s way more like he used to serve in the house and he was like a moderate voter. You know, he avid hunter. So like he was like, he had an A plus rating from the NRA. Like how many Democrats can say
Ryan (04:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And no, so it’s crazy that he’s like, he’s a, it’s like, it’s interesting how he appeals. He has this broad appeal, where, know, like a lot of progressives are really happy about him, but also people, moderates are kind of like, no, you know, he’s not, he’s not crazy. You know, he’s, you know, he’s not, you know, he’s, he’s not going to, he’s, so he seems like he’s, he’s, he’s almost like the perfect candidate, it seems. So definitely a lot of momentum and I’m sure, I’m sure.
as the selection cycle has been, like something will happen next week and things will constantly change. but yeah, but definitely some interesting news, and, you know, off to a good start, I’d say if you’re, if you’re, you know, voting for that side, right?
Ig (05:41)
fan of the left.
Cinik (05:43)
Well, it’s not even a fan of the left. Like you said, he voted moderately when he was in the house. What kills me is that because he does stuff for the people, which they’re all put there to do, suddenly he’s ultra liberal. He’s not ultra liberal. You know, he leans left because that’s his party, but at the same time, he’s showed that he has common sense. And that’s really what it all boils down to at the end of the day. All this stuff is common sense. We don’t need a left or a right. We just need to do things, you
moderately and we never can seem to do that. For the people.
Ryan (06:12)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, that’s perfect. Like he seems like he’s a populist. is his like the, you know, the, the quote left policies that he’s implemented are all things that like kind of hard to argue against. Like who’s going to argue against universal, you know, childcare universal or, or, you know, feeding all the students or sorry, but like who, you who’s going to argue the feed, you know, feeding all, you know, kids or who’s going to argue, you know, at this point, you know, you know, woman’s right to choose, you know,
Ig (06:13)
for the people.
He was working on the childcare too.
Ryan (06:41)
I mean, I guess there are some, like at the end of the day, you know, lot of the policies that he has fought for in the very progressive policies are more populist than anything and they’re, they’re, you easy to defend.
Cinik (06:48)
Yeah, but why do we want to feed lower income and middle income children when we can just give tax breaks to the ultra rich? know, so they can their pile of money will get three inches bigger. That’s that’s the thing. We don’t do anything for the common man. None of them, you know, you ask them and they have a hard time touting what they’ve actually done for the people they’re supposed to be representing. Yes.
Ryan (06:53)
Exactly right,
Yeah. And he has like, he’s got a, you know, it’s like, he’s got a laundry list. I think that’s the one crazy thing is like, when you look at his record, he’s got a laundry list of, of things that he’s done for, you know, for people in Minnesota. So like, you know, he, you know, he can run and say, like, I have, you know, I’ve been an executive and I’ve done this for people. And it’s kind of hard to argue with that kind of record, whatever, you know, side of the aisle you are. And then I think it does make it, it’s interesting because
it like, what are the attacks? I’m kind of curious because like, you know, politics is it’s fighting and it’s, it’s building a narrative and creating a narrative. And it’s interesting to see what kind of narrative they can, you know, kind of create to combat this because he seems like, you know, almost like, you know, made in a, you know, in a laboratory as far as like the perfect kind of candidate you want to appeal to independence and even people on the right who are maybe, you know, like, I just don’t want to deal with Trump.
Ig (07:55)
Well, and the thing is, appealing to the right with that, like the one thing that he says about the whole women’s rights is mind your own damn business, right? So it’s not even about, you know, like a woman’s right to choose. It’s about how about it’s a decision between that woman and her doctor, mind your own damn business.
Ryan (08:02)
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. It’s like, it’s the libertarian thing, right? Like, you know, you know, like even said it, you know, it’s like, may not make the same choice as you, but it’s not my choice to make, you know, that, and yeah, mind your business and that’s
Cinik (08:22)
Exactly, we have one guy that loosely says that you should stay in your relationship whether you’re being beaten or not. And on the other hand, we have another guy that says mind your own damn business, which that’s a really hard choice to make.
Ryan (08:27)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. No. And that couch line. Yeah. It’s like, that was rough. Like, it’s gonna make the debate season really interesting as well. yeah. All right. So anyway, let’s go. go on to some other news. not a ton of news. I know we had last week, we talked a little bit about, San Diego, San Diego Comic -Con. and there was an actually an interesting story out of, Comic -Con.
Ig (08:38)
That was genius. I’d love to debate him if he’ll get off the couch.
Ryan (09:05)
So apparently 14 people were arrested and 10 sex trafficking victims were rescued. The San Diego human trafficking force conducted a sting during Comic -Con where undercover officers posed as buyers, leading to arrests of 14 people, 14 individuals for solicitation, all happening around Comic -Con. Like, did you guys hear anything about this
Ig (09:31)
No, I just went and looked it up now as you said something about it. I’m like, for solicitation? Not even for trafficking or dealing, but for solicitation? Like, hey man, you got some weed? You know what mean?
Ryan (09:37)
Yeah, I get, I mean, I
Yeah. Yeah. So I, it’s weird. I guess I, I mean, I guess with any convention, there’s all kinds of like, you know, you look at any kind of any of these big conventions and there’s like all the apps will be, you know, you know, the apps are kind of buzzing and the usage skyrockets, but I guess, I guess that also includes, the various activities as well, but that’s kind of crazy.
Cinik (10:06)
that’s the problem with a lot of these guys is you start talking to someone and you’re either talking to AI or you’re talking to someone trying to solicit you. There are a lot of pros out there that are like, they’ll lure you in and then next thing you know, they’re charging you. We’re all coupled, so luckily for us, but there are people that go to these things alone and maybe they’re looking for a little bit of company and next thing you know, you’re wrapped up in a solicitation charge. It’s unfortunate, but
Ryan (10:29)
Yeah,
Ig (10:31)
Well, I mean, do you think it’s weird that like, I would venture to bet that a large population of the people that attend Comic -Con are a little bit socially awkward. So do you think that maybe some of the people they’re looking to entrap are people that are pretty vulnerable to being trapped anyway?
Cinik (10:41)
Yes.
yeah, yeah. I mean, I started, when I was on dating apps, I started looking at realism. If the girl was way too beautiful that liked my picture and wanted to talk to me, I knew something was up. I almost didn’t speak to my wife because I thought she was way too pretty to be clicking on my picture. So luckily I allowed myself that indulgence in the moment or I would have been like, she’s just a scammer and just kept going
Ryan (10:49)
Yeah, yeah, that makes
Interesting. Well, I mean, I’m sure it’s like, like I met my wife on match .com, which is probably, which is ancient at this point. But yeah, I guess it probably, but, but yeah, I feel like I couldn’t imagine dating now. Cause I feel like it’s gotta be all bots and then AI is going to make things, you know, cause it’s like at this point now it’s
Cinik (11:28)
Was that on windows 95?
Ig (11:30)
3 .11, baby.
Ryan (11:41)
you can meet a person that’s got an image that looks like a real person and with a bot, it’ll talk to you like a real person and it’s gotta be crazy to try to date online now. know, just be a nightmare. Cause you don’t know who’s real, who’s not. And then you have a situation like this where, you know, yeah, it’s like, I am curious like how much of it is entrapment versus people actually actively seeking out, you know, underage people and, know, cause yeah, it’s like if all these arrests were for solicitation,
How did this happen? Were they connected with somebody or?
Ig (12:15)
And like, was it honest to goodness solicitation or was it like, you know, somebody that is not going to do well on their own and is looking to just pay someone to spend some time
Ryan (12:22)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Cinik (12:25)
Well, that’s it. guarantee it was all on the apps and I guarantee it was, you know, just lonely people looking for a company and it probably didn’t start out that way. And like it probably started out
Ig (12:36)
I mean, I know that’s how trafficking is kept alive, but at the same time, like you have to, you have to kind of look at some of the, the perpetrators as it were, and see, they really that kind of person or is it more, you know, maybe we should be looking at the actual deviance versus the awkward nerds that just aren’t good at talking to girls.
Ryan (12:57)
Yeah. Yeah. Which is, which is kind of, which is sad, but, you know, kind of, you know, brings back, memories of, to catch a predator where, know, a lot of them are pretty bad, but then a lot was, it’s like, you couldn’t help, kind of feel sorry for them because I’m not sure that they were quite in the right mind head space, to really know what they’re doing. But, but yeah, it’s kind of, it sucks, but you know, is what it is. Just, interesting. Cause it’s, I guess comics or pop culture adjacent, I guess.
so the other big or interesting news, I don’t know if you guys heard, but I think, I think at comic con actually, Colin Kaepernick, kind of introduced a, a new company. his comic book company is called Lumi and the plan is to use generative, generative AI to create comics. And the claim is that it’s going to help aspiring creators. and it kind of helps democratize, the, comics, and as somebody who’s a writer, I can understand, I understand the,
you know, the kind of, intent, right. I think it’s in a way it’s noble until you actually look into the implications of that. And I think the issue with is that we’ve talked about it quite a bit on this podcast that the problem with, when it comes to AI art, is that you’re, basically pushing out the artists. so now at that point then, and I don’t, I don’t know the AIR is quite, quite at the level where you’re going to, you know, eliminate the need for actual artists.
But the issue is kind of twofold. One is that you’re going to take work away from artists, people who have practiced their craft over, you know, years and decades to get good at what they do. But then the second part is that a lot of the generative AI systems are trained on art that, you know, or artists work that where consent was not given. And so that then creates a secondary issue. So you have the one issue of people losing work and then the secondary issue of, the sourcing of the art and, whether or not that’s right.
And so there’s been a pretty big backlash against him in the comics community, you know, because it’s like, Hey, you know, you might think you’re doing something good, right? And again, as for my experience as a writer, it’s, it is very expensive to, to create comics. And even for me where I make it, you know, I make an okay living, right? have a little bit of disposable income. It’s still really expensive to create a comic and you don’t make your money back. So if you’re somebody who does not have that disposable income, it’s, it’s nearly impossible to do it unless you can, you happen to find an artist to collaborate or you can draw yourself.
but are you guys aware of this story and any thoughts on
Cinik (15:28)
I’m not, but I find it hard to believe that Colin Kaepernick is in the center of a controversy.
Ryan (15:33)
Well, you know, I’ll give you one more piece of context, which also makes it a little worse, right? Like, I think he is a generally, think he’s a good person, right? And I think, you know, what he did was admirable. And he lost his career, you know, fighting, you know, for something he believed was right. I do think that, but the problem here with this situation is that he spoke with artists who expressed their concerns with it and he went ahead with
So there’s not that point of kind of, you know, like kind of plausible deniability or to him for him to kind of say, I, I wasn’t aware of that aspect. He’s very clearly aware. A lot of creators have said that they talked to him directly about it. And he was well aware of, of the issues involved with, you know, moving forward with it and continue to do it. but yeah. And what are your, what your thoughts on this?
Ig (16:19)
Well, I remember back on the Cynic Radio podcast, we were talking about one of the Marvel shows on Disney Plus where they had an intro that was done with AI. And I said, even then, you’re taking somebody’s job away. You’re going a cheap route to take somebody’s job away. Because I believe the same thing. Like, you or me or some of us using AI to get a jump start on maybe we’re having a hard time writing.
a phrase or something that we’re looking to do. Like if we’re writing a comic or a book or something, and we’re having a hard time coming up with how to get around a certain part of the story and using it to jumpstart us to get somewhere or using it to try and figure out how to play a different piece of music or get some ideas is one thing, but flat out, like commercially replacing people that have spent years refining an art to try and be able to do some of these things is
that that’s going to be the end. You’re taking too many things away. saying that that’s good enough is the problem because it takes all the ingenuity out because it’s all derived off of something else. Right. Just like you said, AI only learns by looking at other things. It’s not reached a point where it can create on its own. And even if it does reach that point, it’s still going to be different than what people create.
So I’m a big advocate of let the people that spend their lives interested in learning art and music and writing and things like that, let them do it. Because I mean, even if you see like Rob Leefield, like the joke was he can’t draw feet, but somehow Deadpool became a huge thing. like without AI, that’s what we get. We get new things like Deadpool and new drawings and new movies and everything. I heard some movie was created using pure AI.
Cinik (17:54)
I mean, if you’re not sympathetic,
Ig (18:13)
And like it was trash. Like they went through and made it and apparently it was trash.
Ryan (18:17)
Yeah.
Cinik (18:18)
But that’s the thing, if you’re not sympathetic to people’s causes, just go on YouTube and throw in, lost my job to AI. There’s several videos that’ll pop up and it’ll break your heart. Because like you said, they spent their whole life refining this art and next thing you know, it’s all been taken away from them. They just stopped getting projects for whatever companies that they’re working for and they’ve been replaced with AI. And it might not be as good, but not as good is still free. And that’s the
Ryan (18:47)
And yeah, like as somebody who, you know, I feel like I use AI quite a bit, but I try to use it as a tool to help me with things and not as the end or the creator in itself. know, like you said, if I’m, I’m, if I’m trying to think of a specific, of a word or an idea or something, I might go into it and say, help me with this thing, right? But I’m not using it to be the creative force. if let’s say, even if it’s, if, know, with comics, like I wouldn’t use AI to create a comic,
I might say I’m trying to design a character and I might ask it to give me some ideas. So, you know, show me this, show me that, show me this. And then I can take that to my artists and say, Hey, here’s the thing I’m kind of thinking about. but not most people aren’t like that. And I think for a lot of people it’s like, Hey, this is a cheap and free way for me to get things done. and yeah, unfortunately I think that’s a problem is, we’re going to become almost desensitized a bit to the jobs that it’s taken away. We’ve talked about a lot. It’s already taken away lot of jobs. If you know any kind of copywriting
graphic design, like, you you can do that with AI now and, and it’ll be very good. And so I do think that is a, it is a problem. And I think, you know, we’re not really addressing it as a society. So it just keeps inching further and further along. And so, you know, I do hope that this backlash causes him to rethink it because, you know, if you’re trying to put yourself in the comics industry and then you’re, you’re turning everybody in the industry against you, you’re not really going to get
so, you know, hopefully I think, you know, he changed his course on this and, or, or, or maybe rethinks the idea, like how, know, like how can I use AI to help people, rather than, rather than using it to replace people. I think that might be the right approach, but, you know, we’ll see, I don’t know that he’s made any statements yet about the kind of out, you know, the backlash, but, know, it sucks. Cause I think, I think we’re, I mean, look, we benefit, we benefit from AI even now, like our show notes are done in AI or, know, two years ago.
We would have to, you know, to do a transcript and show notes would have cost, you know, X amount of dollars per episode. So it’s like, it’s everywhere and everyone uses it. So to some extent to like admonish anyone for using it as a bit hypocritical of me. but I just try to, you know, if my kind of stance, like I’m not going to pay, I won’t use AI for something that I would otherwise pay somebody for. Yeah, that’s what it is. All right. So, last thing, and then we’ll get to our review. so how’s it, which is house of the dragon.
So how’s the dragons ending their saying with season fours? got two more seasons of it. Cynic, what are your thoughts on
Cinik (21:14)
Yeah, I think they’re stretching it out way too much. It probably could have been done in two seasons and maybe it should have been. It’s my understanding that next year, while we’re waiting for the two -year process, we have a Night of the Seven Kingdoms coming out, but that’s an even shorter story, so who knows what they’re going to do with that. But I’m not a big fan of selling you the next thing while you’re in the process of buying the thing that you’re in the process of buying. And that, to me, is what felt like the whole season was.
So doing it again, if they do it again in season three, think the show’s officially
Ryan (21:49)
Yeah. What are you?
Ig (21:52)
It’s one of those things where I think it’s the same mistake they made with the original Game of Thrones. Like if they would have pushed everything and got all the story finished in season seven, season seven was great. Season eight, like just they moved three feet and they did it over a ton of episodes, you know, and they needed to end when everything was so great rather than let’s see how much we can fill, you know, and
quite honestly, it’s a moneymaker, right? Because like it’s doing well and people are liking it. So like, if the more they can stretch it out, the more they can keep people subscribed to Max and HBO and everything else so that they can keep pulling in their money. But then like they have to look at what happened at the end of season eight with Game of Thrones. A lot of people were mad and canceled their subscriptions and moved away. And it’s a problem that they really shouldn’t be looking to try
replicate. They should understand when things are going up, finish up, and then bring out the next
Ryan (22:56)
Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, like, so I, I don’t know if you guys read the book, like the kind of book that it’s based on. I feel like there are two seasons worth of material left. based on where that story goes, I think a lot of it also depends on what their end point is. Like there’s certain, there are a few spots where you can say, okay, this is the end of this story. so if they, if they choose right, I think you can get two more seasons out of it. I just think
And we’ll talk about it during our review. I mean, it probably made a mistake on what they do with this season. So I think there’s a world where this season ended further down the road and then season three would be your last season. and instead of doing that, this one kind of dragged a little bit towards the end. And then we’re stuck in this position where, I guess we can get two seasons, but a lot depends on like what they choose to do. And yeah, it’s like, okay, so we’re to get what season three in 2026.
And then 2028. So we’re looking at like four years from now that will actually, you know, end the show seems like, you know, it’s a bit long, but you know, it’s still good. But yeah, we’ll get, you know, we’ll get to that in our, in our review. And speaking of which, so I guess we’ll talk, we’ll go, we’ll jump right into it into our house of the dragon review. So before we, so we’re going to go, we’re going to kind of cover the whole season. mean, we’ll cover everything we’re talking about as broadly the season before we get into the spoilers,
What would you say your overall thoughts on the season if you were to give a couple sentences on the
Cinik (24:24)
Well, I kind of gave them to you. mean, we just didn’t have a lot of movement. It didn’t really push the story forward the way it needed to. And when we finally did get around to pushing the story, which was maybe the second final episodes, it was not enough. Like they basically sold us a war for two years from now. nobody overall joined a couple.
House of the Dragon fan sites on Facebook and a couple other different social media. Overall, the feelings are negative. Like, I’m not seeing a lot of glowing reviews or can’t wait for the next season. More people just like, you know, WTF. Like, this was eight episodes of what? You know, what did we do? What did we get accomplished? What’s going on? Because what they did get accomplished in Game of Thrones and its heyday, that was like two episodes worth of
Ryan (25:14)
Yeah. So how about about you, Ig?
Ig (25:17)
Yeah, I’m of the same thing. Like I thought they were amping up towards some really good stuff early. Like when they had that big fight with the three dragons and everything going on, I’m like, hey man, we’re gonna get this pop and now we’re gonna get moving. And then that happened. And then it’s like, all right, shut it down. That’s enough action for them this year. Because like, I mean, one guy that didn’t matter at all.
Ryan (25:38)
Yeah.
Ig (25:45)
got burned by a dragon. After that episode, that’s about it. Like nothing else happened.
Ryan (25:48)
Yeah, no, I think, you
It’s, I think it’s frustrating because, the season, yeah, like it was a, I think it started really strong, right? Those first few episodes was as good as anything in Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon. then it started to drag, but it’s like, okay, cool. We need these kinds of filler episodes. We need the episodes. We get all the, you know, all of the, you know, the exposition and, and build towards that big end, right? We know, you know, which is Game of Thrones is known for, right? Having that second last episode is always.
Ig (26:13)
Backstory
Ryan (26:22)
insane. And so it and it I think they just kind of dropped the ball, you know, on that on that there was this episode this season should have ended with something right the way that and we’ll talk about it more but we’ll talk about more during the review but like the way that season one ends this season needed to end with something else and it didn’t and so that’s a big a big issue but yeah so let’s get we’ll get right into the review so we’ll do a little bit different today so we’re gonna go through kind of each a couple of the story lines
and get your thoughts. scenic, what were your thoughts on like, how do you, so how do you, now any, again, spoilers. we’re going to, you know, talk through everything. so at the end of season one, Renera is on Dragonstone. Her son’s died. and she has this look of, you know, like, I think it was just perfect look of like, you know, grief, but also like vengeance and wanting that. How, and this season, a lot of the season was her dealing
people not thinking a woman can lead and what’s going on with Damon and you know, I’m, you know, and just kind of her just becoming more resolute that she’s going to have to do things and it’s good. Some of the things are not going to be good that she has to do. But were you satisfied with where her story goes this season?
Cinik (27:35)
I mean, the one thing I can say about her story was that they didn’t shackle her with grief for too many episodes. It was an episode or two and then she, you know, went back to the lead. But I mean, their complaints about her leadership are kind of valid. You put together a war council with no army and then you don’t want to go to war. So if I’m sitting at the table, I’m like, okay, so what the fuck are we doing? Like, you know, you’re not going to scare them out of King’s Landing. You’re not, you know, you’re not going to talk them down. They’ve already made their point.
Ryan (27:40)
Yeah. Yeah.
Cinik (28:04)
Evidently clear that they feel like they’re entitled to the Iron Throne. So what are we doing? And then you have you know, you you have Damon who Is ready to go to war is ready to go grab an in in the background probably You know a more experienced commander. So yeah, it’s hard not to question whether we should be following this person that doesn’t seem to want to
Ryan (28:27)
Yeah. Yeah. And I think her big, you know, the big choice that she makes, cause you’re right, she has no army. She doesn’t really want to go to war. And, she makes a couple of crazy choices, I think. but we’ll, we’ll talk about that when we get to like the logic and consistency part, but the big story then becomes these dragon seeds, you know, the idea that there are these wild dragons or dragons on, you know, dragons without dragon riders and that, you know, okay, we don’t have, we, we, you know, we, we can find other dragon riders that maybe aren’t directly.
Targaryens but have some Targaryen blood. And it leads to, you know, a lot of death and a lot of bloodshed, but we end up with dragonriders. So by the end of the season, she does have, you know, an army of nukes, right? She’s got her dragons to go up against Aemond. But Yggdrasil, did you buy that story? Like, did that work for you? Or did you feel like, did it feel a little too convenient?
Ig (29:18)
Well, I kind of did some research and some of those things happened in the books that were written too. So it’s one of those things where I don’t know that I find it too convenient because I think even our own history is full of like people that had no business ending up somewhere, ending up somewhere. think the whole of the United States is based on, know, we shouldn’t have been able to rise up against England and do what we did and we did
So it’s one of those things like give people a reason to want to do something and someone will rise up to do it. So I think that’s fine. I think they’re stretching a little bit now. we want to, we’re, spoiler, spoiler doing thing now, like right at the end when they had the print, the youngest Valerian girl out like looking after sheepstealer.
I think they’re going to try and get her to match up with Sheepstealer because they want to just have a lot of CGI budget and dragons in the future seasons because I don’t believe Sheepstealer in any of the written stuff before was actually ever claimed by somebody.
Ryan (30:26)
They’re, I believe they’re kind of combined, they’re kind of taking another character’s story and giving it to her basically. So I don’t think she’s a dragon rider, but there’s another character that is a dragon rider that I think we’ve just ignored completely in the book. And so that’s what, I think that’s what it’s gonna be.
Ig (30:40)
Yeah. But it’s one of those things where it’s convenience. They’ve they’re already paying this actress or something. And so like, let’s go that way. Maybe another another one of the A .I. casualties or something. We’re going to do something over this way. But and that doesn’t bother me either, because, know, I mean, the the Valerian House and everything, they should have some dragon riders and they have in the past. So that doesn’t bother me. But just like there’s plenty of story stuff going on
Ryan (30:46)
Yeah, which
Yeah.
Ig (31:07)
George Martin did plenty of things that like you don’t need to embellish too much. The only thing that needed to be embellished at all was the original Game of Thrones because he still hasn’t finished it. So you needed to come up with an ending that he didn’t give
Ryan (31:20)
Yeah. And so, yeah, are you going to say something, Sinek?
Cinik (31:23)
Yeah, I was going to jump in and say, actually out of all the stories, hers was the most compelling and the most gutsy, you know, to go on. You know, these are all pre tamed dragons that belong to the family. And she almost got cooked trying to to to bond with one. And she’s going out in the wild and just finding this, you know, this savage dragon that’s, you know, roaming about the area by herself. Yeah, like no tamers, no Valerian. She’s just going to she’s going to go out and try
Ryan (31:27)
Yeah.
Ig (31:43)
by herself.
Cinik (31:51)
So I’m interested to see where that goes, but I want to put this to you guys You’re low -born people in flea bottom. They’re putting up barbecue at Raniara’s house signs all over flea bottom Are you gonna take the chance that you may or may not have some valerian blood in you? How about
Ryan (32:08)
Absolutely not.
Ig (32:09)
Well, you I might go anyway because, you know, the current situation in Flea Bottom was not so great. So even if I decide to back out because she’s like, I can’t compel you to do this, but if you want to take a chance, here you go. But like, I’m sure she fed everybody that showed up. So at least I might get a decent meal and then like go hang out on the countryside of Dragonstone instead of hanging out in Flea Bottom where like the food was scarce and they were taking things away just to feed their dragon.
Ryan (32:15)
Fair enough, yeah.
Yeah.
So, it’s interesting.
Ig (32:38)
Because they were down to one, right? Aren’t they down to one dragon?
Ryan (32:41)
Yeah. No, I think they have to, they have to, cause one of the, one of the sons, one of the sons, it will be joining the fray. The, the son that, Alison sent away, he’s got a dragon that will be, yeah. Yeah. He’ll be back with, with his dragon, but he’s not big. So he’s got, you know, it’s got, you’ve got vagar and another smallish young dragon against, you know, yeah. When she’s not riding, but yeah.
Ig (32:44)
Well, they got Vegar and…
Cinik (32:46)
and
Ig (32:52)
yeah, the one that’s back in Old Town.
Cinik (33:03)
It’s whoever, Holanda’s riding. What is it? Dreamscape or something? Yeah, it’s something similar to
Ryan (33:10)
So, so now with the, with the, so do you sense that there’s going to be an issue? obviously you have these low born writers and like, it’s interesting because we have one like Ulf White seems like he does not care and is completely disrespecting the Royals. and then Jace is, is pissed off about this because I think he’s got his own issues, right. Which I think is an interesting story, him being a bastard and then, you know, but he has that on everybody, right? I can ride a dragon and now, no, anybody can drive, ride a dragon. But do you think that they are setting up tension down the road?
with dragon writers who aren’t royals and maybe who have not learned to respect, I guess, I don’t know, not the rule of law, the rule of the queen. Do you anticipate any issues down the
Cinik (33:53)
Well, what’s the good in having a gun if your opponents have more guns and bigger guns? Like, he’s got to look at it from the perspective of, sure, you’re special till they come over and kill you. You know, so you needed the all hands on deck. just put that he wrapped that into his identity a little too much where he could have been making points and learning how to lead and cheering on his mom. And there were so many other things he could have been doing rather than just kind of whinging over this.
Ig (34:21)
worried about his own station.
Cinik (34:23)
Yes.
Ryan (34:23)
Yeah. So the other big, I think the big story on the green side of things is Aegon and his brother Aemond, who, know, who Aemond clearly, I think once power and he has power. He’s got the, you know, the, biggest dragon in Westeros. and Aegon, who’s just kind of in kind of a, kind of just kind of a Dick who doesn’t, doesn’t really care. It doesn’t even really care about being King except that it, you know, he can run around and he’s going to brothels and he’s hanging out with his friends, night friends
kind of got what they deserved. But when they go to battle, Eamon seemingly tries to take Aegon out. do you so do you think it was right? So now who Aegon at the end of the season leaves, Larys convinces to leave in the state that he’s in, who do think he should fear more rain, Rhaenyra or his brother? Who’s more likely to kill him or Larry?
Cinik (35:16)
or Laris for that matter. Because now he’s got two Hightower captives. I mean, both his brother and his aunt, believe, their intentions are known. Like he’s gonna have to die. I’m more worried about what Laris is gonna do to
Ig (35:17)
Or LARIS, yeah.
Ryan (35:38)
Yeah, no, that’s fair. What, so now, do you think Laris has nefarious motives?
Cinik (35:44)
Well, he did cook his own family. So, you know, I don’t think anything’s out of the question, aroma possibilities with this
Ryan (35:45)
Yeah, that’s fair.
Ig (35:51)
I think also that him having some kind of thing where he’s doing something for Eamon or Agon is a way to try cement himself a seat at the table. Because a person with a club foot and having all these other problems, you’re not all that desirable. Although it’s kind of like Littlefinger in the original series. You got yourself somewhere because you could run the back channels and make things happen.
behind closed doors. So I think that that’s what he’s attempting to do. And like, I don’t know that Littlefinger in the original was trying to become King himself, but he wanted to have station that he didn’t deserve. And I think that’s the same thing going on here.
Ryan (36:34)
So now, Aymond also, he’s kind of taken the position of like the small folk just, we all have to sacrifice while clearly the small folk are not happy. Do you think this is a gross miscalculation of his? Do you think, why do you think he’s making these choices now? Is it just hubris? Is he, is he panicked? Like what’s, what’s, what do you think cynic is going on with Aymond that he seems to just be making one bad decision after
Cinik (36:57)
Well, interestingly enough, it’s kind of mirroring real life where he was born in a high tower. So he doesn’t understand the flight of the small folk. He’s probably never even talked to anybody that wasn’t serving him. Joffrey was very much the same way until Marjorie came around. He had zero respect for the people that he was supposedly being the king of. I just think it’s a matter of perspective. When you’re looking down from the towers of the Red Keep, everything seems small.
and he’s going to continue to feel that way until he’s in the middle of
Ryan (37:30)
Yeah. So, Damon’s role kind of in this whole story is really interesting because, you know, so there’s the blood and cheese incident. You know, when Rhaenyra finds out she’s rightfully shocked and appalled and Damon just flees to Dragonstone and the entire season, we’re not sure his allegiance is. So we’re not sure if he’s deciding that he’s just going to take, you know, he’s just going to take Westeros for himself. Is he going to betray Rhaenyra? Is he there for
I’m not even sure that we know if he knows what he wants to do, but he has these series of dreams. He’s in, he, he’s in dragon stone, which is supposed to be haunted and you’ve got the werewood trees and he’s having these dreams. I’m sorry, Harrenhal. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. I kept saying dragons. Yeah. And Harrenhal and he’s, he’s, he’s having these, visions and these dreams that slowly seem to push him towards, you know, realizing that like, you know, being king is not important. There’s a, there’s a far greater world until he finally makes a decision that he’s going to back Granara’s
Ig (38:08)
Aaron Hall, he’s in Aaron
Ryan (38:26)
So do you think that that was his plan all along or do you think he had other ideas and those moments really affected him and changed what he wanted to
Ig (38:37)
I think earlier in the season, you know, he was behind obviously sending blood and cheese in to get things done at the Red Keep. And I think that even though like it was a pretty vile thing, it was one of those things, like you said, a son for a son, like I want this. And he got it done. And then she was upset with him. It’s like, you know, I think he felt like kind of, I need to go do something
whatever I do here isn’t enough. So I’m going to go do something. And then he started feeling like, you know, people are coming and bowing to a knee and then making them call him King. And then they were like true on like in a calling King Regent and stuff like that. They wouldn’t even just call him King. So I think he was starting to get to that point where it’s like, well, you’re going to call me King because I’m just going to, I’ve started this army coming together and, and things are coming, are starting to work. And then the haunting of Heron Hall, like just really started to get to him and, and Alice Rivers, you
she kind of got in his head. And I think he’s kind of come around and like that, you know, that those were wood trees and the three eyed raven thing, man, like, like that’s really going to get to you if you give it a chance. And I think it got to him, which is great because, know, you start throwing too many hats in that ring for the game of Thrones. mean, you think about some of the earlier seasons of actual Game of Thrones. There were a lot of people trying to think about usurping the crown, right? Because you had people, you had Daenerys on the other, on the other side of the world. You had
Like four different people trying to take it from, cause a couple of different Baratheons. So two different directions there, the Lannisters, you know, all kinds of stuff happening. And it was kind of crazy. And quite honestly, that’s probably how a lot of things will actually work. But it’s one of those things where the further spread apart you are, the weaker you are. So I think he understands like we need to stay strong together and keep the Targaryen
Cinik (40:29)
Well, much like soccer, the pace of play is what bothers me. And that was my biggest problem with this season. And my next biggest problem was the storyline that they gave Damon. And not that he needed these visions for self -growth. I don’t know if we needed six episodes of these visions. Shout out to Patty Consine because he’s still the best actor in the cast, even in death.
Ryan (40:48)
Yeah.
Ig (40:49)
No.
Ryan (40:55)
Yeah.
Cinik (40:58)
I mean, we did get to see a lot of things that helped in character development as far as Damon went, but it was just a little, a couple episodes too long.
Ryan (41:04)
Yeah, it dragged on definitely. So now one of the one of the interesting stories for me was the whole story like kind of Corliss’s story. And I don’t know how much of its growth or what’s happened. Basically, I a guy who, who was a, you know, basically a pirate, who clearly cheated on his wife, he loved his wife, obviously, but he also had affairs, he left her a lot that was brought up constantly that he was constantly leaving her alone.
he fathered two kids that were bastards who he was not a father to one resented that the other one, you know, I think has high hopes of maybe having a relationship with him and, and, in Adam and Alan and, and then there’s this great scene where, where his son Adam, like just lets him have
for not being there and and because at this point Corliss doesn’t have an heir yet and and so now he’s almost like given up or given into okay well one of you guys will do it and he’s trying to have a relationship do you think Corliss feels guilt about how he treated them or is it just that he he knows that he’s not gonna be around forever and that he wants somebody to take over the kind of
Cinik (42:11)
I think it’s a little column A and column B. As a bastard myself, I really didn’t love the way that Corliss handled the situation. I just didn’t think it was great. I think that if there was a time and place after he saved your life, maybe you should approach that subject and be like, you know, hey, listen, I realize all this, we have all this stuff between us. Maybe we need to work it out a little bit. It’s sort of like a confession from somebody’s deathbed, right?
Ryan (42:19)
Yeah.
Cinik (42:40)
I got nothing else to lose, so hey, I’m your dad. Yeah, that wouldn’t work for me either, and I don’t blame him for rebuffing him in the way he did. Yeah, it was.
Ryan (42:47)
Yeah. And it was a great scene. yeah. And so now speaking of great scenes. So I have issues with how the season ended, which we’ll get to. But I do think there’s, you know, the Allison and Reneira relationship, I think was one of the strongest things about the first season. think they were smart to have them interact this season, which I didn’t expect, you know, kind of knowing where the story was going I didn’t expect it to happen at this point, but at one point Reneira sneaks into.
King’s Landing. And then Alison’s at the very end sneaks into Dragonstone and they both are trying to, you know, to, to compromise or figure out or figure out, figure something out. And in each case, I think the plans were not bright, but in each case, we get these great interactions with them. And I do like that interaction with them at the end, where basically Alison has to make a choice. You know, she’s trying to save her kids and save herself. And Renea is like, well, look, you know, you know, Agon has got to die.
Like that, that’s just it. Alison then in that moment has to make a decision of whether or not, you know, Egon dies, but for peace and for her other kids to survive. Cause she’s going to let basically allow Reneira easy access to King’s Landing to take over. so what were your thoughts on those scenes? And did you, did you, did it make sense or logically to
Cinik (44:02)
Well, the two of them definitely had plot plate mail. They were armored to the tee to make those plans, you know, to just walk into the enemy camp and hope that it was fair play. I mean, I love those scenes because those two have natural chemistry whenever they’re acting together. I kind of feel like that about Tyrion and Circe whenever they were in a scene together. Like, it’s just magic when they’re acting together. And I feel the same about those two, but I just…
Ryan (44:05)
Yeah, yeah, seriously.
Cinik (44:32)
I wish they would have done them in a more believable way, like not out in the open like they did because in reality’s sake, one of them would have died in one of these ventures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No neutral ground, no protection. Like she didn’t sneak into Dragon’s Stone. She walked up to the fucking gate. You know what I mean? And you would hope that they would care enough about her mom that if she got taken captive,
Ig (44:44)
Yeah, just show up. No raven, no nothing. Hey, I’m showing
Ryan (44:46)
Yeah.
Cinik (45:02)
that would be enough to slow down the war, but none of that happened. I mean, I like her decision based off of how shitty her kids are. mean, sacrificing any of them other than Helena would probably be okay in my book because what do you really lose in if you have four shitty kids and you get rid of one, you still have three shitty kids.
Ryan (45:21)
Yeah. So I, yeah. Yeah. And I think, yeah. But I think that, think Reneira’s decision early on was, was, was the dumber one because like she, there’s no reason she should have made it out of there alive. I don’t know how, like friendship or not. I don’t know how Alison would allow her to leave, you know, and I don’t buy the whole, had a knife to her or whatever. Like that, that’s crazy to me.
Ig (45:22)
Yeah, Helena’s a pretty innocent kid though. You gotta leave her. Well, she’s a little loopy, but you just gotta let her be loopy and just leave her out.
Cinik (45:24)
Yeah, yeah, she’s
Now, let me ask you this, does she let her leave if she doesn’t realize that she started this war on your false pretenses?
Ryan (45:56)
Fair enough. That’s a point. Like she, they do a great job with that moment of her realizing, okay. Maybe I, maybe I messed this up. So you’re right. But I do, kind of do believe Alison because at the end of the day, she’s offering her, you know, she’s offering her a way out of the devastation at which point, so now, so, so do you think it’s a bit of foreshadowing? So it looks like, Renera is going to have easy access to King’s Landing, but she was ready and willing to kill a lot of people. Do you think that’s a bit of foreshadowing for where her character goes?
I
Ig (46:27)
I it might be. I don’t think that they’re going to end up with the mass killing that could have happened if the access to King’s Landing wasn’t there. There’s going to be obviously some war things happening, right, with dragons and things like that. There’s going to be some large deaths, but I don’t think the death toll will reach anywhere near what the point would have been because they’d have had to fly these dragons to like House Lannister and just all these houses and just start wiping things
and try and stay ahead of Vegar and just do things and move to the next one. And I think without this, that, you know, when they end up in the seat, you know, and then people are going to come and bend the knee, especially when you’ve got more dragons than the other one had. People are going to show up and bend the knee. And like some people, anytime you have any kind of transition like that, some people are going to die, but it’s going to be a lot less. And it’s, and it’s one of those things that at least in the short term, it’s going to make your side look a lot better because you took
more peacefully than needed than you could have. You could have just showed up and taken everything by force and burned down King’s Landing and turned it into Aaron Hall too. And you
Ryan (47:34)
Yeah. So the, and so now we’ll get to the, so the, way the season ends, which I think is the most controversial and one of the most controversial parts of the, of this, of this season of House of the Dragon is everything. So season one ends, Rhaenyra’s on Dragonstone, and you know, wants to take back the iron throne or wants to take the iron throne. Season two ends, season two builds to a big battle, right? It’s building
We’ve got ground forces, we got dragons, we’re gonna fight. And it ends with Renera still on Dragonstone, ready to take King’s Landing. So, Ig, while I figure out what’s wrong with the lights here, what were your thoughts on how they decided to end that season? Did that work or was that just disappointing that we waited two years for
Ig (48:27)
It was hugely disappointing. I wanted something. I wanted anything. I wanted something to happen because we had that one fight in that amazing episode where we lost the queen who never was. Right? That was a great episode. There was so many good things happening there. And from there, just, I feel like it just went downhill as far as anything actually moving or happening. You know, we got to see.
a bunch of different armies marching places. We got to see, you know, the Lannisters coming out of Casterly Rock moving somewhere. We got to see, you know, the Starks coming across by the twins, coming across the bridge and everything. So we know they’re coming, but like any part past the first episode this season, did a Stark speak a word anywhere? I don’t think they did. Now we just got to see the Stark banners marching across the bridge.
Okay, that’s great, but like that’s all we’re going to get. I think they needed to get somewhere and start, even if they just started the battle, like had dragons fly over and then fade to black or something like, you know, battle, like see two sides coming together. And that would have been way more exciting than like we had some people walking. I’m like, this is not Lord of the Rings, right? We don’t need, you know, three seasons of people just walking somewhere.
Ryan (49:43)
Yeah.
Yeah, seriously. No, so how about you, Sinek? are your thoughts on? I know you have some strong opinions on this as
Cinik (49:55)
Yeah, I mean, it’s not far off from what they said. We we got nothing. We were given nothing other than the king being burned. What did we really accomplish this season? They’re they’re they’re selling us the next season, which is not a year away. Like when I sat down and was surprised that Lord of the Rings stopped to bid story because I hadn’t read the book yet and I was pissed and I was like, I got to wait a year for this. Now we’re looking at two years.
And it very well may bully me into actually reading the books because I have read the Game of Thrones books. I just haven’t gotten around to these. But yeah, I just wasn’t in love with the tactic. Exactly what Ig said, we should have got the beginning of a battle. And that would have at least gave us enough of a cliffhanger other than, you know, several armies marching in the same direction. Game of Thrones used to give us shots like that, but they also gave us something in the fucking episode. So that was the one thing that they missed. We didn’t get.
one major event in that episode to say, okay, this was a season finale, you know.
Ryan (51:00)
Yeah, I agree. I think that’s the problem. There was so much build this season that to end like this, think it was a great scene with Renara and Alicent. And I like when shows or movies take that shot, right? Instead of the big action scene, the big action set piece, you go on something dramatic. The problem was that the entire season was built towards fighting.
And since we didn’t get a lot, we got some great, you some battles, we didn’t get a lot of it. I think that they dropped the ball here. Also just, like visually. Yeah. And
Ig (51:37)
We didn’t get a battle since episode four though. Like the last half of the season was no battles.
Ryan (51:43)
Yeah. And like, you know, so I don’t want to give, I don’t want, I won’t go into spoilers into what happens beyond the show, but there is a visual that we should have gotten at the end of the season. That just, it, it made sense. It quote rhymed with season one. Like there was a visual that we needed at the end of the season that we didn’t get. And there was a moment that we needed this season that would have been powerful to end the season. And we’re going to get that visual early in season three. And I don’t think it’s going to have the same impact that would have had this
because I think it would have, was, you know, we would have been able to sit with that for two years and think about what that, the implications of that was going to be. And we’re not going to get that. So we need that in episode three of season three. And I just think that’s going to be disappointing because when episode three, when season three ends, you know, likely where it’s going to end is, is not going to be a place that, mean, again, who knows? Because I, I didn’t have the highest expectations of season one of the show and it blew me out, you know, blew kind of blew my expectations out of the water. And I think this season started
But yeah, I just wish that this season ended where I think it should have ended. And maybe they’ll prove us wrong, but yeah, I think I’m with you guys and I think they dropped the ball quite a
So, don’t you give me your favorite performance, the most impactful moment, and your final thoughts on the show. Or the season.
Ig (53:04)
Like for the season? Funny enough, I think my favorite performance is Helena. Like, you know, to play someone who’s so aloof, but so innocent in a place where like, you know, power is granted to you. She’s the queen, right? Power is granted. You have unending opportunities, but she’s so innocent that she doesn’t even really know how to lie. Right? So the blood and cheese come in there, like, which one’s the boy? She’s like, that
You know, here, have my jewelry. It’s worth a lot, you know? And she’s like, I don’t want to kill people. I don’t want to ride the dragon. I don’t want to do these things. Like, she’s just so innocent. And playing that character that way in this type of show has got to be challenging. But it’s done really well. She’s very aloof and very just not grounded. She’s just kind of in her own world. And I just think it’s played really well.
I was just surprised every time she was on screen and her part was very small, but I just thought it was very interesting. Most important thing I think is, you know, the Queen who never was, like, volunteering to go and then getting double teamed and dying there. And that was rough because first of all, great actress. I loved her in the whole series so far, so she was really doing a wonderful job. you
taking that risk to send someone there knowing that like it could turn another way and know and got to give it to sir, Kristen Cole for like kind of setting that up. But like also got to take something from Agon who’d like if he’d have just done the same thing we used to yell about walking the walking dead all the time, like stay in the house, stay at home, Carl. You know, if if Agon would have just stayed back at the red keep, man, that would have gone beautifully for for team green.
And no, he had to go in there and it messed things up. And yeah, they still got Reneira, but, or Raina, Reneese, sorry, Reneese. They still got Reneese, but it was not as clean because Agon got burned up. So I think that’s, that’s my, biggest thing that I think happened this season. like, there was a, there was a number of things that happened that I think were impactful to the story. But I
as far as like the one that impacted me the most. And of course it’s in the top rated episode for the season, but it’s the only episode where I feel anything significantly movement direction happened at all.
Ryan (55:37)
Yeah. And your final thoughts on the show, on the season?
Ig (55:40)
Final thoughts, think the season as a whole, I’d probably be around a six. There’s a couple of eight, nine episodes in here. But I think as a whole, because they ended so weakly and they didn’t really have any movement in the last
I mean, even the sewing where they have Hugh Hammer and all these people coming in, they’re getting dragons and everything, great. You could have done that in 15 minutes of any episode. You didn’t need to spend a whole episode having them run around and having people get burned up and everything else happening. It didn’t need to work that way. So a lot of people like that episode. I think that that’s maybe a seven episode. But the first half of the season, by far superior to the second half.
But still, like we said already, I wish they would have done some things to get us leaving on a note where we’re anticipating more rather than just saying, okay, more stuff is coming, but like, we’re not sure exactly where everybody, the pieces are gonna end up. They’re just kind of generally moving towards something. So I think they ended poorly, but I would still give the season about a six, but there’s a lot to look forward to. I mean, hopefully they have enough story to go to more seasons,
Sinek said earlier, I would venture to bet that it’s gonna be a problem stretching 16 more episodes, which is 16 more hours out of what’s left in this
Ryan (57:06)
How about you, Sinek?
Cinik (57:10)
Game of Thrones, Game of Thrones came along and kind of made me love it. And it’s hard to stay mad at it. It’s like your friends or your spouse get fucking furious at them. And then it’s like, well, but they’ve given me so much. And that’s kind of the way I feel about this IP. Like I love these characters. I love the D &D like setting. I love George R .R. Martin’s writing. Like I love the characters that he’s invented
Tyrion Lannister by far is one of my favorite characters of all time. And he gave that to us. So it’s hard to stay mad at the show for its faults. I think my MVP, you I yell at Patty all the time, but I think it was, it’s not. It’s actually Fabian Frankel for Kristen Cole. I’ve never seen a character receive so much hate online. So that guy’s got to, as a heel, a lover of heels and wrestler.
Ryan (57:54)
I was gonna say, it can’t be Patty.
Cinik (58:07)
the Roddy Pipers of the world. You gotta love Kristen Cole for what he brought to the table. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he’s a great heel and you absolutely love to hate the guy and I just don’t understand these fans and maybe it’s people just aren’t that intelligent. They can’t separate the actor from the role. We’ve got to send him death threats and tell him how much we hate him. How about we just, it’s kind of like when I met Jeffrey Dean Morgan.
Ryan (58:08)
Yeah. But I don’t think he, I think he’s more of like an X -Pac heel, not a Roddy Piper heel.
Cinik (58:35)
My ex -wife said, you know, we really love to hate your character and he looked at her and he gave him that Negan granny said that’s the point isn’t it and It was such a Negan thing to say So if you have Fabian Frankel great job Overall, I mean the season to me was a five it could have been so much more and the event that IG is saying happened Really early in the season. It’s like so that was the biggest thing that happened was three or four episodes
We, mean, IGN had a big story the other day, like has the House of the Dragons wandered too far off the main story to come back? Well, if we’re going to do that, then think of other cool shit to throw in there. You know, if you’re not gonna stick to the source material, then give us a big moment that’s not in the books and everybody goes home happy and feels like they’ve got their money’s worth. I’m gonna continue to watch. I love Game of Thrones, but to me, this season was like a five.
Ryan (59:32)
Yeah, so I’m a little higher than you. think I would say, so the problem is this, the season, I don’t think there was a bad episode. There was a couple of like exposition -y episodes. And even the last episode was a very good episode of TV. If that was episode eight of 10, it would have been great, you know, cause then we’d get two more episodes. So if we were judging by its standard Game of Thrones season, it would have been perfectly fine. I think the problem is that it ends where it ends. And so that brings the whole season down. So it’s kind of a situation of it being.
you know, the whole is less than the sum of its parts. Cause personally, like, I don’t think there’s any single episode I would rate less than a seven and a half or eight. But I do think the overall season drags towards the end. Like we start super strong and it’s just like, my God, this is going to be an epic season. And then from basically episode three, was that the episode where Rainy Sties? Is it three or four? Four, right? So episode four, we’re like, my God, this happened? What, how the hell is this season going to end? And then it just kind of drags
Cinik (1:00:22)
I think it’s four.
Ryan (1:00:30)
And I like the character work. know, think Corlys’ work, if I’m going to give an MVP, you know, it’s a little tough, know, as you’re, you both of you guys’ choices are good. Damon’s great in this season. I think Messaria’s story is really interesting. I like the Corlys story, but I’d like to have seen more and seen how he deals with the grief. Like I’d like to actually see him deal with the grief beyond just naming the ship. But I really liked his story and he, you know, and what, and what his character’s going through almost, like psychologically.
But there’s a lot, know, the season’s chock full of great performances. So it’s not lacking for performances. You know, the set pieces are amazing. The, you know, the costuming is awesome. The, you know, the dragons for the most part outside of a couple of things here and there look great. So it kind of has all the trappings, but then it’s just held back a little bit because of how the season ends. My, the most impactful moment, I think the blood and cheese moment was really big because again, it’s like, it happens episode one.
we were shocked that we’re gonna get that right away. I think it’s executed brilliantly, it’s brutal. And then the bonus part is just the dog and the dog being around, kicking the dog and getting even more angry, getting angry at him, probably angrier at him for kicking the dog than cutting a kid’s head off. And then just seeing the sad dog that’s just hanging around, probably hit me in the feels more than anything else on the show. But yeah, overall I think I would probably give the season a seven and a
Again, a bunch of strong episodes, we were just kind of let down by how it ended. yeah, like you said, Sinek, I’m going to keep watching it. You I’ll be excited for season three when it comes. I do think there’s enough story to tell for two more seasons, but I also don’t want them to hold back and just drag things out. So
Cinik (1:02:16)
Well, let me ask you this, We’ve all read ahead a little bit. If it ends like it does in the book, do you think people are really going to be angry?
Ryan (1:02:25)
yeah, mean, aware are you of everything that’s gone on? Okay, so okay, if you’re listening to the show, stop listening right now. Okay.
Ig (1:02:30)
Pretty weird.
Cinik (1:02:33)
Don’t, no, no, I wouldn’t say anything. Do you think people will just lose their shit? Because it’s basically
Ryan (1:02:42)
I mean, it’s gonna ha so, well, I wasn’t even thinking of that, because people, like, we just don’t care about, you know, like, we’ve become desensitized to the incest, I think we’ve become desensitized to that stuff. I think that I’m more interested because of our allegiances and how the way things end are – will you be angry with what happens to what – people, if you’re aligned with a certain, you know,
Ig (1:03:06)
Yeah, because we’re all like at this point solidly team black. And are we going to remain that way?
Ryan (1:03:09)
Yeah. Are we going to remain that way? And are we going to like how things, you where things go? So, and that’s the things like, I don’t know. So that’s what I was talking about before is like, what’s the end point, right? Are we going to end like, you know, if we’re just saying like Renera and Alison, right? That generation of character, does this, does the story end with them? And when we find out what happens to them, not that they’re going to die or not, right? Like just a matter of like, does Renera end on the throne? Does she end up,
you know, dead, does she end up banished from West, like when her story is over, is that it? Or is it Jace? Is that the story where we’re going to end season four is with his story? Is it going to be with Jace’s kids? Is it going to be with his brothers? Like, so I think a lot depends on what the end point is of the show. And that will determine whether or not it needs a season
Cinik (1:03:58)
Well, people were pretty upset at Game of Thrones and we basically lost a lot of second and third tier characters. Nobody major really died other than Ned Stark. In the end, we lost some Lannister, sure, but yeah. But I mean, in conclusion, the people that should have died, that needed to die died and that was the story. So I just wonder if what I read today happens, how people are going to feel because I don’t think they’re gonna be okay
Ryan (1:04:07)
Yeah. Well, Rob Stark,
Ig (1:04:11)
Caitlin.
Ryan (1:04:18)
Yeah.
Okay, yeah.
Cinik (1:04:27)
I don’t know if I’m going to be okay with it. Like not to the level of Red Wedding, but I’m not going to be okay with it. And I got this line that I wanted, I was thinking when you picked Corliss and I didn’t want to stop you, but Corliss is very Trump -like in nature because we always hear about how great he is, but we’ve never seen
Ryan (1:04:32)
Yeah, no, that’s fair.
Yeah. Well, I was going to say he’s more like he, cause he goes, okay, I’m going to shut up. I don’t want to give any of the way, but I’m not that, yeah, I’ll just be quiet. but anyway, I would ask you guys a couple of questions off, off air. So, thank you guys again for being on the show. and, as usual, all of our stuff is at portable whole pub or site or emails at portable whole pub at gmail .com, portable whole publishing .com join the newsletter. the second issue of the newsletter is coming out
Ig (1:04:50)
Ha ha ha.
Ryan (1:05:14)
and IG, until next time.
Ig (1:05:16)
Don’t get captured. Watch out for the hole. May the force be with you. Believe in the Batman. I don’t know.
Cinik (1:05:17)
in X
The last Jedi.
00:00 Introduction and Discussion of Presidential Election
09:06 News: Sex trafficking Sting SDCC
13:33 News: Kaepernick upsets comic creators with AI
21:23 House of the Dragon Review
53:03 Final Thoughts and Ratings